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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:56 pm 
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At long last following the inquiries and investigations made by Martin Allen, the DfT have finally re-issued their "guidelines" on the section 19 minibuses, stating that if they are used for hire and reward, the driver MUST have a psv licence and DCPC and the vehicle must be licenced as a psv. FFS, it's been The Law since the introduction of the Transport Act but it's taken them over 20 years to get the wording of their "guidelines" nearly right!

Hopefully it will see the demise of this sort of illegal operation which has cost many licenced psv and taxi operators lose work to the unlicenced industry.

Linky here: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... cyXT7RjvkQ


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:48 am 
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If this has been changed it's still pretty vague:

Minibus permit - if you need to charge running costs

You can apply for a minibus permit if you need to charge passengers, as long as:

the vehicle can carry between 9 and 16 passengers
you’re driving it for a voluntary organisation that benefits the community - eg an educational, religious or sports organisation
the minibus service is only available for members of that organisation - not to the general public
any charges are to cover running costs and are not for profit

Apply for a minibus permit from your local authority, or contact DVSA.


I'm sure the Voluntary organisation types will find a way round it because they'll claim it will benefit the community whether they charge running costs or not...the trouble is the Running costs take into account the Wages of those so called Directors and employees they hire to run the Charity...they never make a profit that can be classed as a profit even though technically they have money left over from their charges which to us in the private sector is a PROFIT...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:50 am 
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They can issue as many guidelines as they like but until there is mega enforcement people will just carry on. Where does this leave the day nursery's who also take the kids to schools? Round here they don't even have S19 permits on the vehicles.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:46 pm 
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grandad wrote:
They can issue as many guidelines as they like but until there is mega enforcement people will just carry on. Where does this leave the day nursery's who also take the kids to schools? Round here they don't even have S19 permits on the vehicles.


youl want plates on a hearse next

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:46 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
grandad wrote:
They can issue as many guidelines as they like but until there is mega enforcement people will just carry on. Where does this leave the day nursery's who also take the kids to schools? Round here they don't even have S19 permits on the vehicles.


youl want plates on a hearse next

The act concentrates on living people, dead people are exempt.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:13 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:

youl want plates on a hearse next

The act concentrates on living people, dead people are exempt.

Isn't there a law regarding carrying a corpse in a taxi?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:42 am 
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grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:

youl want plates on a hearse next

The act concentrates on living people, dead people are exempt.

Isn't there a law regarding carrying a corpse in a taxi?



Yes, Ven uses it..It is make sure it's "Money up Front".


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:46 am 
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bloodnock wrote:
grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
The act concentrates on living people, dead people are exempt.

Isn't there a law regarding carrying a corpse in a taxi?



Yes, Ven uses it..It is make sure it's "Money up Front".

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:21 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
grandad wrote:
They can issue as many guidelines as they like but until there is mega enforcement people will just carry on. Where does this leave the day nursery's who also take the kids to schools? Round here they don't even have S19 permits on the vehicles.


youl want plates on a hearse next


Yes even a hearse was licenced as an Hackney years ago.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:51 pm 
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Even after all this time the DafT still can't get it right. What the law actually is, is for "any financial activity regardless of the status of the operator. Look at the Glockner Ambulanz case, that was the "test case" taken to the ECJ (love them or hate them). The UK government is very selective in what laws it chooses to obey to the letter.

There's already been "test cases" here where the law was made crystal clear, but as someone said earlier, there is nobody around to enforce it. The Glockner principle could also be used against the "voluntary car" schemes that seem to abound at the moment. [edited by admin] will hit the fan one day soon.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:40 pm 
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More new "guidance" from the DaFT today according to RouteOne magazine. I'll post the link when I can find it.

The Community Transport Association is said to be "upset" at not being consulted on the changes. FFS, they've been aware that they have been operating illegally for years but the Home Office and the CTA have chosen to ignore the law.

Lots of council minibus contracts will be terminated in the very near future; it cannot be seen that councils are using illegal operators in breach of their own rules.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:44 pm 
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Linky here:
http://www.route-one.net/articles/Drivi ... s_guidance


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:00 am 
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roythebus wrote:
More new "guidance" from the DaFT today according to RouteOne magazine. I'll post the link when I can find it.

The Community Transport Association is said to be "upset" at not being consulted on the changes. FFS, they've been aware that they have been operating illegally for years but the Home Office and the CTA have chosen to ignore the law.

Lots of council minibus contracts will be terminated in the very near future; it cannot be seen that councils are using illegal operators in breach of their own rules.


Do you think the councils many of whom Sponsor these community Transport associations quite handsomely will now withdraw their hefty donations in the light that their money will soon be supporting an illegal operation....or will they still throw our money at them?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:56 pm 
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what about the local firm with about 6 lwb 17 seater buses who fetch staff in/out

Hire and Reward.....isnt the PAYE driver rewarded?

D1 or D1 101?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:26 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
what about the local firm with about 6 lwb 17 seater buses who fetch staff in/out

Hire and Reward.....isnt the PAYE driver rewarded?

D1 or D1 101?

Are you sure that the driver is not PAYE? if he is then it is more likely to be PCV already and not S19.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:13 pm 
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grandad wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
what about the local firm with about 6 lwb 17 seater buses who fetch staff in/out

Hire and Reward.....isnt the PAYE driver rewarded?

D1 or D1 101?

Are you sure that the driver is not PAYE? if he is then it is more likely to be PCV already and not S19.


Drivers ARE "PAYE" ...and D1 wasnt asked for

cos I applied

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:46 pm 
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It is quite legal for a company minibus to be used to convey staff providing they don't pay a fare. You, like the DafT confuse the carriage of passengers for hire and reward and the driving of the vehicle for reward, i.e. getting paid to drive. The two are entirely different.

It is whether or not the passengers pay for their transport either directly or through another party.


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 7:43 pm 
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http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/05/3 ... d-1038615/

for the Irish view and the truth about the problem.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 9:16 am 
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roythebus wrote:
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/05/30/news/-not-for-profit-minibus-drivers-could-have-licences-rendered-invalid-if-european-commission-ruling-is-enforced-1038615/

for the Irish view and the truth about the problem.



Quote:
However, Charlotte Hughes from the Community Transport Association said its members should "assume they can conduct business as usual".


It's less about absolute care and all about feathering ones own nest.....Running such schemes can be very a lucrative position for many of these Community Transport types directors, go take a look at some of your local CT groups on the Companies house website, that'll open your eyes to what wages go out and to whom. unlike the self employed who's incomes come out of the profits the CT Directors salaries come out of the costs and expenses to the Group, It becomes quite easy not to make a profit when you simply cream off the Profit margin as wages.. it all fits the "Not for Profit" charade very nicely.

Just a Scam masquerading as a do gooder charity.

Image


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 11:53 pm 
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You've hit the nail on the head there Bloodnock! Like the CT group in the west Midlands that runs over 850 s19 minibuses...not for profit?? All unlicenced, all used for Hire and Reward, all with highly paid directors and volunteer drivers. Mugs.


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