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 Post subject: community transport
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:16 am 
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When does community transport become an unlicensed Private Hire business?
Our local community transport claim to be doing 8,000 journey's a year. which is more than most small firms around here are doing.

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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:34 am 
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Location: A City near Birmingham
grandad wrote:
When does community transport become an unlicensed Private Hire business?
Our local community transport claim to be doing 8,000 journey's a year. which is more than most small firms around here are doing.


Same in Stafford, a nice fleet of 16 seater buses, all new, bought with a grant from the council, all doing school runs

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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:04 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
grandad wrote:
When does community transport become an unlicensed Private Hire business?
Our local community transport claim to be doing 8,000 journey's a year. which is more than most small firms around here are doing.


Same in Stafford, a nice fleet of 16 seater buses, all new, bought with a grant from the council, all doing school runs

The work here is mainly being done by people using their own cars.

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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:09 pm 
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Location: Stamford Britains prettiest town till SKDC ruined it
The problem is that in some parts of the country these are "social businesses" with a board of directors made up of councillors who of course can be paid a salary for this and it is in their vested interests to thrive. There was the case in wisbech a few years ago but I don't think anyone has recently tried to take it on

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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:20 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
The problem is that in some parts of the country these are "social businesses" with a board of directors made up of councillors who of course can be paid a salary for this and it is in their vested interests to thrive. There was the case in wisbech a few years ago but I don't think anyone has recently tried to take it on

There is a Councillor on the board and the person who is in charge is an ex police inspector who is standing for election in November.

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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:50 pm 
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CT operations are a thorn in the side. Martin Allen of MC Cars in the midlands took this matter all the way to the European Parliament. The EU found in his favour and decreed that these operations were outside the law and issued infraction proceedings to the UK Government. then brexit intervened and the matter was quitly forgotten or ignored. the best we could manage was revised "guidance" from the DfT.

It really needs somebody to take a private prosecution against the "hospital car" providers for breaching the private hire laws. The 9 to 16 seaters are still permitted under certain circumstances, but the drivers must now have PSV entitlement and DCPC. But as you say, some of these outfits sail close to the wind and many have local councillors on their board. In my view s a PSV operator they are illegal.


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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:03 pm 
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grandad wrote:
When does community transport become an unlicensed Private Hire business?
Our local community transport claim to be doing 8,000 journey's a year. which is more than most small firms around here are doing.

I think it's when they make a profit, which is often abused.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -transport

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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:07 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
When does community transport become an unlicensed Private Hire business?
Our local community transport claim to be doing 8,000 journey's a year. which is more than most small firms around here are doing.

I think it's when they make a profit, which is often abused.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -transport


They never make a profit as their Paid directors take any post costs profit balance as wages thus making them break even or run at a loss.

It's the biggest open abuse of the rules in UK passenger transport today.


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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:21 pm 
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Martin Allen's evidence to the European Commission included several related European Court judgements. One notable one contained the definition of what we call "hire and reward". That was worded something like "a service provided for any fiscal activity".

Basically if any money or other payment in kind ensues, it is for "fiscal activity". No question about it. The only genuine exemptions ar groups such as the local scout group, a religious organisation, a school, an elderly persons club. Whilst they are exempt from holding an operators licence in the EU generally, drivers must have the PSV entitlement regardless and must obey Driver Hours regulations and use a tachograph.

The test case for tacho use was Lindblom, a Swede who used a racing car transporter to take his racing car to meeting. The EU court found that although he was being paid to race or display his car, he was not being paid to transport his own car. It was his own goods so no tacho required. A similar matter regarding tacho use was another one the the EC, a tipper truck operator in somewhere like Hungary was carrying roadstone some 800km to another EU country where the roadstone was being used for road building or repair. It was decreed that he didn't need to use a tacho as the lorry was being used in conjunction with road building or repairs and therefore exempt. However, if he dropped part of that load on the way at say a builders merchants, then a tacho would be required for the whole journey.

It's an interesting life. My view is that the UK government take their own narrow view on this matter because it suits them they seem to be very selective on what EU laws they do and don't obey (or didn't in the past). they seem to take the Driver CPC card to extremes when a lot of EU countries pay it lip service. How many s22 drivers have got one?


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 Post subject: Re: community transport
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:05 pm 
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Looks like the trade in rural Hampshire are having issues with a 'not for profit' firm.

https://www.altonherald.com/article.cfm ... hyear=2021

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