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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2025 4:23 am 
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Brian1010 wrote:
Have we any updates on ‘digital platforms’ and exactly who the new legislations will affect ?

Seems they're still trying to work it all out. Came across this below via TaxiPoint.

And who was it that said further up the thread that it was as clear as mud as regards whether it might apply to legacy platforms? [-(


Eazitax wrote:
The LPHCA, NPHTA and Eazitax engage with the HMRC Digital Platforms Team and DfT on Digital Platform Reporting Rules

A Joint Statement

There has been some concern in our industry about our place in this legislation, so this week, Steve Wright of the Licensed Private Hire Car Association (LPHCA), David Lawrie of the National Private Hire & Taxi Association (NPHTA), and Gary Jacobs of Eazitax (Industry Accountants) met with representatives from the HMRC Digital Platforms Team and the Department for Transport to discuss the new reporting rules for digital platforms.

The meeting with HMRC was organised by The LPHCA as the second major collaborative project in recent weeks with the NPHTA alongside Eazitax, whom we both had worked closely with on other HMRC issues.

Together, we emphasised the need for clarity and understanding for taxi & private hire vehicle operators and industry software suppliers regarding their obligations under these regulations.

The HMRC Team provided an overview of the OECD's reporting rules, which require platform operators to report seller information to HMRC starting this year. However, it was clarified that these rules are only for those captured by the legislation.

We raised concerns regarding the confusion surrounding the definitions of operators and platforms, as well as the lack of clear guidance from HMRC.

We highlighted that there was widespread misunderstanding among operators about their reporting responsibilities, if any! We emphasised the need for clearer communication and definitions to facilitate compliance, particularly for those with limited resources.

The HMRC team were given clear examples of where the definitions were not clear to our trade and all participants expressed a desire for collaboration. It was made clear that penalties would only be applied to those who are aware that they are captured by the legislation and choose not to comply. So those who are genuinely unsure as to their obligations and require help will get it, and not be penalised.

A proposal was made for us to outline various scenarios and definitions related to the reporting rules, with the aim of improving understanding and cooperation between HMRC and the private hire sector. We will, therefore, be working further with HMRC but reporting to our members and the wider trade as we move forward.

We pointed out that, from what we could gather, the majority of our industry would not be affected by this new requirement, as it seems to be more aimed at “platforms” such as Ebay, Etsy, Amazon, AIrbnb, etc, where an item or a service is advertised and paid for on the platform only, the platform then passing payment on to the seller, which did not fit into the majority of Private Hire Operators working models.

HMRC were extremely receptive to our comments and recognised that with the combined input from the two largest industry representative bodies, it would indeed be highly beneficial to work together towards clarity.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2025 4:24 am 
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LPHCA, NPHTA and Eazitax wrote:
We pointed out that, from what we could gather, the majority of our industry would not be affected by this new requirement, as it seems to be more aimed at “platforms” such as Ebay, Etsy, Amazon, AIrbnb, etc, where an item or a service is advertised and paid for on the platform only, the platform then passing payment on to the seller, which did not fit into the majority of Private Hire Operators working models.

Funny how they're now comparing the legacy private hire platforms to the likes of EBay, Amazon and AirBnB rather than Uber, Bolt and Freenow etc.

Wonder why that would be? 8-[


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2025 11:37 am 
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The majority of p/h operators offer payment by their app on booking a p/h vehicle, will this mean they fall foul of this.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2025 2:16 pm 
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Well who knows, Heathcote - I think that's basically what the legacy opertators are trying to work out with HMRC, hence the joint statement above :-o

But worth going back to the article by Eazitax in PHTM a year ago now:

In February 2024 Eazitax wrote:
Although private and public hire are
longstanding trades, in recent years, more and
more people have opted for flexible work such
as ridesharing and food delivery. This is referred
to in the media as the ‘gig economy.’

So, governments have had to address tax
challenges posed by this kind of work. The UK
government has introduced new legislation that
requires ‘online platforms’ to directly report the
income details of their sellers (drivers in this
case) to HMRC.[...]

Let’s explore this legislation’s impact on drivers
and the platforms they work for.

HMRC mandates that digital platforms
operating in the UK must report income details
of their sellers to HMRC. This information
includes earnings, the number of journeys or
deliveries completed and expenses incurred by
the drivers. This legislation aims to improve tax
compliance in the gig economy, ensuring
drivers pay the right amount of tax on their
income. However, this is only for what’s called a
digital platform, not necessarily private hire
operators.

In February 2024 Eazitax wrote:
• Most of the platforms covered by the new legislation are open marketplaces that match sellers to buyers. Examples are Booking.com, eBay, Etsy as well as ridesharing apps such Uber, Bolt, OLA and Freenow.

• Private hire tech exists in a different space because it pairs operators with drivers, who are already regulated through their relationship with the licensing authority.

So all that's just the usual thing about portraying 'ride-sharing' apps and the gig economy as something new, whereas in my opinion it's just an evolution from what went before. In particular, check out the final paragraph above, which makes it sound like the 'ridesharing apps' aren't even licensed, and to that extent it's all very different :-s

But - and what I've been saying for about a decade now - apart from the fact that Uber and Bolt et al are app-only and non-cash, what's the real difference between them and the legacy operators?

None that I can see. But if a legacy operator does app-bookings and/or automated payments, does that mean it counts as a digital platform, for part or all of its work?

Can't be bothered looking into the actual 'digital platform' definition in the new legislation, but I suspect my question in the paragraph above is the essence of what LPHCA, NPHTA and Eazitax are trying to thrash out with HMRC :?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2025 2:18 pm 
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And although Eazitax's article from last year was of course aimed at the PHTM audience, and basically banged the drum that that audience wanted to hear, if you read the article closely, Mr Jacobs of Eazitax does hedge his bets a bit as regards whether it would all apply to the legacy operators:

In February 2024 Eazitax wrote:
However, this is only for what’s called a
digital platform, not necessarily private hire
operators.

In February 2024 Eazitax wrote:
What does this mean for traditional private
hire and taxi operators and fleets?


The definition of a digital platform has yet to
be made clear to us in the ground transport
industry.


• One thing to understand is that operators and
despatch software are not necessarily
included in the legislation
.

So despite the main thrust of the article being that the PHTM audience could just ignore it all, Mr Jacobs did leave the door open to the fact that it could potentially be problematic, hence the recent meeting with HMRC and joint statement above :?

(And there's another attempt above to cement the binary/dichotomy, or whatever you want to call it - "us in the ground transport industry". So your average private hire driver is in the 'ground transport industry', while the average Uber driver is in, er, what? 'Beam me up, Scotty', or the trade equivalent? :lol: )


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2026 7:51 am 
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Came across this :-o

Image

Slightly higher-res version:

https://scontent.fgla2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=6991E29B


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2026 2:26 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
I saw that as well.

Clearly those numbers are what Uber has given HMRC.

A couple of things jump out.

I’m assuming the numbers mentioned are gross, so you would have to take at least 25% of that, before you take off your normal running costs.

Also I think this isn’t a chase up letter, so to speak, it’s more of a ‘we now know’ letter, as there is a sentence that’s says if you are up to date please ignore.

_________________
IDFIMH


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2026 8:21 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
I’m assuming the numbers mentioned are gross, so you would have to take at least 25% of that, before you take off your normal running costs.

Yes, and in fact the letter effectively states that 'you must include all your income, including any fees retained by Uber'.

Which is basically just the normal accounting and tax return stuff - turnover aka fares, then take off commission as per Uber, or settle or whatever with more traditional platforms, and that gives gross profit, or whatever.

Might be a small anomaly with Uber these days, though - isn't it the case now that the driver doesn't know the gross fare, so the figures provided to them by Uber would be after commission etc?

So back a few years ago, an Uber driver might include this in his accounts and tax return:

Turnover/fares £40,000
Commission £10,000
Gross profit £30,000

But if Uber only provides the fares figure after commission then the driver would only know the £30k figure :-o

So if drivers don't know the actual fare charged by Uber to the passenger, then I'm not sure how HMRC can ask the driver to include gross fares/income before 'fees retained by Uber'.

Of course, insofar as the final profit figures are concerned it shouldn't make any difference that the driver doesn't know total fares - the figure for income after commission will be the same either way.

So, who knows, maybe Uber has provided HMRC with gross fares, which the driver wouldn't know, because they're not told these days.

So it could be that the driver has been totally honest and has provided the correct figures, but they're not consistent with the figures Uber has provided to HMRC, because the driver doesn't have access to those figures.

But, anyway, whether the driver has tried to understate his income or has in fact been totally honest, the intent of the letter and the access to the information now available to HMRC should be self-evident :-o


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2026 12:24 am 
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In the letter above, HMRC wrote:
If you work as a private hire driver, you're self-employed for Income Tax purposes.

Oh, really? :-o

I doubt many private hire drivers are employees, but I'm quite sure some are. Maybe even employed by a regular on here...

Anyway, didn't really notice that when I first read the letter (was distracted by the numbers etc :roll: ), but that sentence was specifically reproduced in a Taxi Point article, and that's what drew my attention to it (although Taxi Point merely repeats it without comment or qualification).

But Taxi Point has a useful summary of the issue more generally, as well as the letter itself.

I'd kind of forgotten about it all, but it would seem that just the app-only platforms are subject to this reporting to HMRC requirement, and that the legacy platforms don't have to...


HMRC writes to Uber drivers over undeclared income as new platform reporting rules take hold

https://www.taxi-point.co.uk/post/hmrc- ... -take-hold

Uber drivers and other app based licensed drivers across the UK have begun receiving letters from HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) asking them to check whether they have declared all income earned through the platform on previous self-assessment tax returns.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2026 12:49 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
In the letter above, HMRC wrote:
If you work as a private hire driver, you're self-employed for Income Tax purposes.

Oh, really? :-o

I doubt many private hire drivers are employees, but I'm quite sure some are. Maybe even employed by a regular on here...

Yes, Our drivers are employees.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2026 5:34 pm 
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This is part of an 'interview' in Taxi Point with Uber's UK boss.

Well according to this drivers are provided with gross fares and the commission paid, by the looks of it. So it should be obvious what information should be included on tax returns.

So it's maybe just the individual fares paid by 'riders' that drivers don't get information about, but they do get a summary of weekly total fares and commission paid.

And the average commission is less than 50%. Which is good to know :roll:

But what the precise average commission is is anyone's guess - I suspect neither side wants to state precise figures - it would look high from Uber's perspective compared to previous fixed rates of 15% or whatever. On the other hand, a precise number wouldn't fit the drivers' narrative of commission rates of pushing 50% :-o

Maybe that is the case with some runs (as Andrew Brem concedes), but not the average, which will be a lot lower.

It's maybe like the drivers who say they're only taking £30 for six hours a day on the rank. But don't mention that £200 a day school run before and after they're actually ranking :wink:

Uber UK General Manager Andrew Brem wrote:
“Dynamic pricing is there to create the highest likelihood for a trip to happen by making pricing attractive for both riders and for drivers. Since both rider and driver fares adjust, the amount that Uber keeps from the rider fare varies from trip to trip, from virtually zero to almost half - but this quickly averages out. We encourage drivers to look at their weekly summary to see how much Uber kept from their week’s fares - we often find that drivers are pleasantly surprised when they see the average amount over the week’s trips. We’re absolutely clear that the majority of fares go where they belong: in drivers’ pockets.”


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2026 5:36 pm 
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Apart from that, not sure if there's anything particularly new here that stands out, but still worth a read nonetheless - it's not particularly long. But the usual PR stuff about partnerships and people who 'live, work and visit' things etc. Which is always a bit of a PR red flag :lol:


INSIDE UBER’S UK SHAKE-UP: Andrew Brem on VAT pain, Dynamic pricing and cross-border working

https://www.taxi-point.co.uk/post/insid ... er-working

TaxiPoint spoke exclusively with Uber UK General Manager Andrew Brem about several of the most pressing regulatory and commercial issues facing the taxi and private hire sector. The breaking discussion covers Uber’s move to agent and principal arrangements outside London, the impact of new VAT rules in the capital, the Transport Committee’s focus on cross-border working, and the case for mandatory national licensing standards.


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