Taxi Driver Online

A bit of help needed, if anyone has the inclination.

I've been trying to help the taxi drivers in my neighbouring town fight a flood of parking tickets from over zealous council parking attendants. They are harassed by these attendants all day long.

Unfortunately, most of the drivers payup but a couple have decided to fight and I generally go along with them to their appeals for a bit of moral support, and take over when they get tongue tied.

In particular, they are getting tickets while on the ranks if they get out of the vehicle to stretch their legs or have a fag.

We have won two appeals but the council keep changing the reasons for issuing the parking tickets, and on the third appeal the council came up with "if the driver is out of the vehicle it is no longer a hackney carriage therefore is just another vehicle that they are entitled to put a ticket on". The adjudicator was impressed with this, but fortunately for the driver the next appellant was kicking off because we had been arguing for half an hour, and they only allow 15 minutes per appeal. The adjudicator adjourned the appeal, and told us to look up the TMA 2004 Schedule 7 part 1, which he says gives the parking attendants complete control over taxi ranks.

To me this only points to the LG(MP)A 1976 (C57) Section 64 (1), which only gives the parking attendants rights over 'other vehicles' parked on taxi ranks, not taxis.

I remember reading somewhere an appeal court case that decided a taxi is always a taxi, even when off duty, so must always comply with taxi legislation. Does anybody here remember this, and if so, have they any idea of the case.

Many thanks for any help you can give.

Just to put your minds at rest there is no gratitude from the neighbouring towns taxis for my involvement, and most of them would rather have their eyes syringed with battery acid than read anything I had to write, but, the thin end of the wedge drives me on because what happens there today will surely happen everywhere else tomorrow.

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If it leaks try Captain Creeches Creeping Crack Cure

It is a working vehicle at all times! Well that is what they say for smoking regulations! even if it is your day off you cannot smoke in your cab if you see my point.

The other thing that comes to mind is that the drivers cannot be restricted to their cabs on health grounds. Take it to the extreme, do they expect a driver to remain totally in his/her cab for an 8/10/12 shift. I would argue that drivers have to get out of their vehicles to retain alertness and fitness for the benefit of themselves and the general public.

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if you cannot be yourself, then who can you be.

Bring that to the attention of the health and safety officer

As long as the drivers are in attendance with their licensed carriage, they are not breaking any law,

Their defence may be that the bye-laws (if the LA has bothered to have them as they should) state that they are duty bound to assist passengers with loading and unloading and they are outside their cabs ready to do that.

Obviously if they are 15th or 73rd turn on the rank, then the argument is that any passenger can choose any cab from a cab stand / rank, so they still have to be ready to assist the passenger.

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Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.

PS. Which LA are we talking about.

PPS. Read the bye-laws for this LA.

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Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.

The Traffic Management Act 2004 Schedule 7 states;

Parking contraventions outside Greater London
4 (1)Outside Greater London there is a parking contravention in relation to a vehicle if it is stationary in circumstances in which any of the offences listed below is committed..
(2) The offences are—.
(a)an offence under section 64(3) of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 (c. 57) of causing a vehicle to stop on part of a road appointed, or deemed to have been appointed, as a hackney carriage stand;

And the LG(MP) Act 1976 states;

64 Prohibition of other vehicles on hackney carriage stands
(1) No person shall cause or permit any vehicle other than a hackney carriage to wait on any stand for hackney carriages during any period for which that stand has been appointed, or is deemed to have been appointed, by a district council under the provisions of section 63 of this Act.
(2) Notice of the prohibition in this section shall be indicated by such traffic signs as may be prescribed or authorised for the purpose by the Secretary of State in pursuance of his powers under [section 64 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984].
(3) If any person without reasonable excuse contravenes the provisions of this section, he shall be guilty of an offence.

And the Auschwitzien Traffic Wardens' are saying that once the drivers are out of their cabs, the vehicle is no longer a licensed Hackney Carriage.

What does the fixed penalty notice say as the reason why the ticket has been issued?

IMO the only way of challenging this, that I would know, is to send a letter with payment for the FPN stating that it is being paid under duress and then try to reclaim that money through the civil courts.

The Registrar is bound to have more knowledge than the ATWs.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.

A taxi is always a taxi.

But on a rank it needs to be plying and avaiable.

If the driver is away from the cab for more than five minutes I would say he isn't available.

But keep appealing, and appealing and appealing. The cost to the council of the appeal process is always more than the ticket, so in time, if enough drivers appeal, the council will see sense.

Of course is some rascal painted over the signage then no ticket would be valid.

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IDFIMH

I would expect to lose on this argument. Because if a driver has to be out of his cab to retain alertness and fitness then the council would say that he should be taking proper breaks away from the rank and the vehicle.

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Grandad,

TD, The two cases that define that a hackney carriage is always a hackney carriage are: -

Hawkins -v- Edwards [1901] 2 KB 169 & Yates -v- Gates [1970] 1 ALL ER 754 QBD.

From your description of the events leading to the issue of the tickets it would appear that the drivers were not in a position to hop back in the vehicle as the traffic wardens approached/made out the tickets. If the drivers had beggared off somewhere, (out of sight) then the case of: -
Attridge -v- Attwood (R -v- Plymouth CC) might have effect wherein it states that - the driver of a motor cab commits an offence if he leaves the vehicle in breach of a Road Traffic Order. A rank is for standing/plying for hire only ... not parking.

A hackney vehicle licence is issued to the vehicle... as long as it is licensed it is a hackney........ whether the driver is in or out of the vehicle..... if a driver get's out of his vehicle and goes for a wander... while it is on a hackney rank.... he deserves to be prosecuted.... but if he is simply stretching his legs out side his vehicle he is simply following well advertised medical advice..... to avoid DVT.. deep vein thrombosis ... caused by continuous sitting down.....

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

If the wheel does one revolution in 5 minutes they can't ticket the vehicle.

Sorry I have not replied sooner, been on a long job.

Thanks everybody. A lot to take in.

The PCN is simply marked, parking on a taxi rank. Duration of offence 41 seconds.

The driver received a phone call while on the rank, to collect a prescription for an elderly woman from the chemist round the corner. He was the only taxi on a three space rank which is not used as a plying rank, but a pickup, dropoff and rest rank, with agreement from licensing. The girl in the shop next door said she would keep an eye on his vehicle. She phoned him that the parking attendant rushed out of a doorway the second he went round the corner. By the time he got back the ticket was done and the attendant was taking photo's.

One of the photo's produced by the council was a wall plaque that say 'no parking at any time, except taxis,. The councils own procedures give taxis ten minutes to be unattended 'irrespective of the markings on the street'. But the council contend that the second a driver leaves the vehicle it immediately ceases to be a taxi because one of the conditions of the license is that the vehicle should not be left unattended. Licensing are adamant that they retain full control over taxis on taxi ranks, but won't get involved in parking disputes as there is a proper appeals procedure that doesn't involve them.

The parking attendants in this town are determined to prove they have jurisdiction over taxis, and the appeals process is no deterrent because 'it cost them nothing, costs are never awarded, and they cannot suffer any penalty for abusing their position'.

One of my points was that, if the council accept that a taxi can be unattended for ten minutes, then they must accept it remains a taxi for those ten minutes, but who knows. It appeared to me on the day that the adjudicator does not like the idea of taxis having any allowances either.

Again, very great thanks for the valuable input. Nick.

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If it leaks try Captain Creeches Creeping Crack Cure

As mentioned above, post the details on www.pepipoo.com

They are almost certain to find a flaw in the ticket or the council's procedure. Very few tickets are so perfect that Pepipoo can't find a way out of them.

It's always a taxi.

Whether a driver is in it or not, it's always a taxi.

Hawkins and Yates, as mentioned above, says so.

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IDFIMH