Taxi Driver Online

I disagree.

All vehicle that stand and ply for hire on a street are deemed Hackney Carriages. And that is ALL VEHICLES that stand & ply for hire, whether licensed or not, are deemed Hackney Carriages!!

The question then is; are those Hackney Carriages that are standing & plying for hire on a street licensed as Hackney Carriages to do so, BY THE LA IN WHICH THEY ARE STANDING OR PLYING FOR HIRE?

If they are NOT standing & plying for hire on a street, then whether they are licensed as Hackney Carriages anywhere at all has no relevance, because to be deemed a Hackney Carriage, the carriage has to stand & ply for hire in the first place, & it is then a question of whether it is licensed to do so, in the LA in which it is standing and plying for hire.

So, if the Berwick licensed HCs are ONLY working from a dispatch system in Newcastle, please tell me how they are acting as Hackney Carriages in Newcastle?

For reference I base my writings on TPC 1847;

Section 38

What vehicles to be deemed hackney carriages.

Every wheeled carriage, whatever may be its form or construction, used in standing or plying for hire in any street within the prescribed distance, and every carriage standing upon any street within the prescribed distance, having thereon any numbered plate required by this or the special Act to be fixed upon a hackney carriage, or having thereon any plate resembling or intended to resemble any such plate as aforesaid, shall be deemed to be a hackney carriage within the meaning of this Act; and in all roceedings at law or otherwise the term "hackney carriage" shall be sufficient to describe any such carriage: .....

And prior to that in the Act it states;

Section 37 (as amended by section 16 TA 1985)

Commissioners may licence hackney carriages.

And with respect to hackney carriages, be it enacted as follows:

The commissioners may from time to time licence to ply for hire within the prescribed distance, or if no distance is prescribed, within five miles from the General Post Office of the city, town, or place to which the special Act refers, (which in that case shall be deemed the prescribed distance,) hackney coaches or carriages of any kind or description adapted to the carriage of persons, provided that the grant of a licence may be refused, for the purpose of limiting the number of hackney carriages in respect of which licences are granted, if, but only if, the person authorised to grant licences is satisfied that there is no significant demand for the services of hackney carriages (within the area to which the licence would apply) which is unmet.

The TPC 1847 then goes on to state;

Section 45

Penalty for plying for hire without a licence.

If the proprietor or part proprietor of any carriage, or any person so concerned as aforesaid, permits the same to be used as a hackney carriage plying for hire within the prescribed distance without having obtained a licence as aforesaid for such carriage, or during the time that such licence is suspended as hereinafter provided, or if any person be found driving, standing, or plying for hire with any carriage within the prescribed distance for which such licence as aforesaid has not been previously obtained, or without having the number of such carriage corresponding with the number of the licence openly displayed on such carriage, every such person so offending shall for every such offence be liable to a penalty not exceeding [level 4 on the standard scale].

So the way I interpret this in the Berwick issue is as follows;

Are the Berwick licensed Hackney Carriages standing & plying for hire in Newcastle?

a) If they are, then they are acting as Hackney Carriages, by virtue of section 38, & contravening sections 37 & 46, because they are not licensed to do so in Newcastle.

b) If they are not, then they are not acting as Hackney Carriages in Newcastle & cannot be deemed to be Hackney Carriages, eventhough licensed in Berwick, whilst in Newcastle working on a dispatch system.

And whether they sit a knowledge test or not is a decision for Berwick Council.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

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Good point

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

But they shouldnt be working exclusively in those districts....in anycase they should pass somekind of knowledge test if they are HC...for the area they are licensed in....this would IMO virtually stop the practice.

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

No problem...we'll let it continue...wonder if any of those current Ph firms operating around the country on the fringes of the law realise they can call themselves taxi companies....go to Berwick license there vehicles and stick two fingers up in the places they actually operate?

CC

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I am not defending what is happening in Newcastle with Berwick licensed Hackney Carriages; I'm with you.

But I just can't see what law they are breaking, if they are working on a dispatch system in Newcastle.

Of course it is morally wrong, but that does not make it legally wrong; unfortunately!

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.

All this makes decent sence though doesnt it....its one of the best arguments for plate limitation going, there's so little work in Berwick the poor licensees have to travel in one case 300 miles to find work

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

If a council deems a knowledge test is not required in order to obtain a license then that is their prerogative. Councils know what's best for their area don't they?

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

The more mayhem caused by the Berwick issue, the greater chance there is of at least a review of the legislation.

Wouldn't it be marvellous if Berwick win & all the country's HCs became licensed there & worked off dispatch systems in their own areas.

What wonderful chaos that would bring!!

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.

No JD I know best, and you know best and perhaps even Sussex and even MrT knows best, but Berwick council dont.

Even their trade suggested a knowledge test and were refused......strange the L was prepared to buy them all roofsigns though...maybe thats why he needs the funding?

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Found this snippet;

TGWU
Hackney Carriage Drivers Association

Two representatives from TGWU spoke on Cross Border Hiring and Illegally Plying for Hire. This was a major problem for hackneys where taxis from other areas came into Liverpool and then picked up fares for their return journey, this was especially at weekends.

More enforcement was required to combat this as it was taking trade away from locals taxis who may have to pay a higher premium for their licenses.

Private Hires were also plying for hire in central Liverpool where an estimated influx of up to a 1000 vehicles were driving round and parking in the streets. A recent Police and Local Authority Enforcement Officers operation resulted in 127 convictions for illegal plying for hire: 3 vehicles confiscated, 18 vehicles removed from ranks and 88 non-endorsed fines in eight hours.

We have made two visits to the DOT raising these problems, but legislation must be brought in through Parliament to resolve this and give greater protection to licensed drivers and vehicles which will make it safer for the travelling public.

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

http://toomanytaxis.forumandco.com/hacked-off-f3/berwick-or-wallsend-t19.htm

Them out of town HC's appear to be commiting an offence.

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

So which half of the North Tyneside Taxi Association are going to give their plates back if there are too many?

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IDFIMH

Have'nt we already got legislation to deal with all this .
What is the point of any new legislation if the enforcement people continue to do nothing about flagrant flouting of the rules.
If the current rules were enforced i.e. illegal ranking/picking up flags by either PH or out of area HC , then there would not be a problem.
If you go to any large town or city on Friday or Saturday night you can see illegal pickups happening all the time

_________________
you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

Dunno....the Berwick half ?

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Hackney carriage driver’s licence revoked for ‘flimping’
Release date: 25.07.08
Ref: BBC/PR/L&D/21/08

Berwick-upon-Tweed Borough Council has today (Friday, 25 July) revoked the licence of a hackney carriage driver for ‘flimping’ - illegally picking up someone off the street who has not pre-booked the vehicle.

A driver who illegally picks someone up off the street invalidates the vehicle’s insurance, placing not only the passengers at risk, but also every other road user.

The driver was caught by Newcastle City Council in a recent sting operation.

Licensing Manager David Wilson said:

“If a driver is caught illegally picking up a fare off the street, we will revoke their licence if we are satisfied the person is not a fit and proper person to be a taxi driver.

“I’d like to thank Newcastle City Council for their co-operation in this matter. If they had not shared their evidence with us, we would not have been able to take action in this matter to protect the people of Newcastle from the risk of being carried in uninsured vehicles.

“We are also continuing to carry out regular enforcement and any driver caught picking up an illegal fair will also face having their licence revoked,” he said.

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin