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 Post subject: Re: tHANK YOU
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:32 pm 
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charles007 wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
charles007 wrote:
What they do is to park on the main street why staff from the club walk up and down the street, asking if any one would like a free transport to the club.

it just dont seem right

The vehicle is being used for reward; the club to which the passengers are being transported to is gaining the reward (of spending customers).

You say the PH mini-bus is licenced for 8 passingers & so it should be. Is the driver also licensed as a PH driver? If the club own the vehicle, under whose Operator Licence is the vehicle being used? Does the club have a PH Operator Licence?

If the club has a PH Operator Licence, then are the hirings being recorded as per the LA's Conditions of PH Operator Licence?

The club staff are clearly touting for reward (the club's reward of spending customers).

If the PH is picking up passengers off the street, without pre-booking, then it is acting as a Hackney Carriage, for which it is not licensed & most probably the driver is also not licensed for.

With regard to operating a vehicle for reward, a previous post on TDO highlighted a rural pub owner doing almost the same as this club & being prosecuted for operating a vehicle for reward by driving customers to & from his pub without the vehicle or driver being licensed.

the club does not own the vehicle, its contracted from a local p/hire firm and the driver is a licenced p/hre driver, the min bus is licenced for 8 or under.

You say contracted, which would imply that the club are paying the PH firm for the hire of the PH vehicle & I cannot see a PH firm offering the PH vehicle & driver 'gratis'.

Therefore all the LG(MP)Act 1976 legislation applies. Each & every hiring must be pre-booked & registered at the PH Operator Office etc, etc.

But I strongly suspect that the club & PH firm have put their heads together & found a legal loop-hole & have arranged the hirings as follows;

The hiring has been made in the usual & legal way of phoning the PH firm, ordering the PH vehicle in the specific name of one of the clubs' staff on a multiple wait & return from the club to the main pick-up street, back to the club & so on until they no longer need the PH vehicle.

Now like it or not, if that is the scenario, IMO there is nothing that I can see that is wrong with that. Obviously the person in whose name the PH vehicle is order MUST be with the vehicle at ALL times.

What is wrong is the touting by the club staff on the street. This IS a criminal offence under Section 167 of The Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994.

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 Post subject: Re: tHANK YOU
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:40 pm 
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charles007 wrote:
the club does not own the vehicle, its contracted from a local p/hire firm and the driver is a licenced p/hre driver, the min bus is licenced for 8 or under.

What area is it and I will look at their PH rules?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:44 pm 
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cabbyman wrote:
I'm probably totally wrong but, if it's on a specified route, does it qualify as a taxi-bus?



a WHAT?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:45 pm 
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Quote:
the club does not own the vehicle, its contracted from a local p/hire firm and the driver is a licenced p/hre driver, the min bus is licenced for 8 or under.


i think you will find the club could buy/hire a 16 seater, employ a driver with a D1 licence and operate legally as a "courtesy" bus service...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:56 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
cabbyman wrote:
I'm probably totally wrong but, if it's on a specified route, does it qualify as a taxi-bus?


a WHAT?

Mr Cabbyman wrote taxi-bus!

I think some sections of the Transport Act 1985 allowed for such things, with a raft of conditions & 'hoops to jump thro' before being legal & the HC trade just laughed.

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 Post subject: Re: tHANK YOU
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:58 am 
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Sussex wrote:
charles007 wrote:
the club does not own the vehicle, its contracted from a local p/hire firm and the driver is a licenced p/hre driver, the min bus is licenced for 8 or under.

What area is it and I will look at their PH rules?


Bolton.

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 Post subject: Re: tHANK YOU
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:40 am 
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charles007 wrote:
Sussex wrote:
charles007 wrote:
the club does not own the vehicle, its contracted from a local p/hire firm and the driver is a licenced p/hre driver, the min bus is licenced for 8 or under.

What area is it and I will look at their PH rules?


Bolton.

Why doesn't the Bolton LO look at his own licensing conditions for PH operators? ](*,)

http://www.bolton.gov.uk/website/Pages/ ... ators.aspx

In particular:

25. When a hiring is accepted the Licensee shall immediately cause to be made (before commencement of the journey), a permanent record of the details of the hiring. Such record shall contain all the details prescribed below in full and, where the record is written it must be made in ink:

i. the day and date
ii. the full name of the person or organisation making the booking
iii. the name of the person travelling and the number of passengers
iv. how the booking was received
v. time of pick-up
vi. point of pick-up
vii. destination
viii. information to indicate vehicle used and driver
ix. remarks including details of any sub-contract
x. the person taking the booking
xi. if a fare is agreed for the journey, the amount


In other words how can the operator know the name of the customers or the number of them prior to them getting in the vehicle? :?

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 Post subject: Re: tHANK YOU
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:52 am 
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Sussex wrote:
charles007 wrote:
Sussex wrote:
charles007 wrote:
the club does not own the vehicle, its contracted from a local p/hire firm and the driver is a licenced p/hre driver, the min bus is licenced for 8 or under.

What area is it and I will look at their PH rules?


Bolton.

Why doesn't the Bolton LO look at his own licensing conditions for PH operators? ](*,)

http://www.bolton.gov.uk/website/Pages/ ... ators.aspx

In particular:

25. When a hiring is accepted the Licensee shall immediately cause to be made (before commencement of the journey), a permanent record of the details of the hiring. Such record shall contain all the details prescribed below in full and, where the record is written it must be made in ink:

i. the day and date
ii. the full name of the person or organisation making the booking
iii. the name of the person travelling and the number of passengers
iv. how the booking was received
v. time of pick-up
vi. point of pick-up
vii. destination
viii. information to indicate vehicle used and driver
ix. remarks including details of any sub-contract
x. the person taking the booking
xi. if a fare is agreed for the journey, the amount


In other words how can the operator know the name of the customers or the number of them prior to them getting in the vehicle? :?


The person on the street that is organising the journeys could be taking those details whilst waiting for the minibus to arrive and texting them to the office. :wink: Simples

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 Post subject: Re: tHANK YOU
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:28 pm 
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Posts: 1364
Location: Liverpool
Sussex wrote:
charles007 wrote:
Sussex wrote:
charles007 wrote:
the club does not own the vehicle, its contracted from a local p/hire firm and the driver is a licenced p/hre driver, the min bus is licenced for 8 or under.

What area is it and I will look at their PH rules?


Bolton.

Why doesn't the Bolton LO look at his own licensing conditions for PH operators? ](*,)

http://www.bolton.gov.uk/website/Pages/ ... ators.aspx

In particular:

25. When a hiring is accepted the Licensee shall immediately cause to be made (before commencement of the journey), a permanent record of the details of the hiring. Such record shall contain all the details prescribed below in full and, where the record is written it must be made in ink:

i. the day and date
ii. the full name of the person or organisation making the booking
iii. the name of the person travelling and the number of passengers
iv. how the booking was received
v. time of pick-up
vi. point of pick-up
vii. destination
viii. information to indicate vehicle used and driver
ix. remarks including details of any sub-contract
x. the person taking the booking
xi. if a fare is agreed for the journey, the amount


In other words how can the operator know the name of the customers or the number of them prior to them getting in the vehicle? :?


](*,) they have and said its legal,

as churchill would say oh yes

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The Hackney Association Ltd
bbha@btinternet.com


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 Post subject: Re: tHANK YOU
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:22 pm 
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grandad wrote:
The person on the street that is organising the journeys could be taking those details whilst waiting for the minibus to arrive and texting them to the office. :wink: Simples

And the moon could be made out of cheese.

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 Post subject: Re: tHANK YOU
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130
Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
The person on the street that is organising the journeys could be taking those details whilst waiting for the minibus to arrive and texting them to the office. :wink: Simples

And the moon could be made out of cheese.


Are you telling me that the moon is not made out of cheese? I take it that you have been there and can personally confirm this?

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Grandad,


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 Post subject: Re: tHANK YOU
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:52 pm 
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Posts: 8119
Location: A Villa in Aston NO MORE!
grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
The person on the street that is organising the journeys could be taking those details whilst waiting for the minibus to arrive and texting them to the office. :wink: Simples

And the moon could be made out of cheese.

Are you telling me that the moon is not made out of cheese? I take it that you have been there and can personally confirm this?

The word 'Crackers' comes to mind.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:57 pm 
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Brummie Cabbie wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
cabbyman wrote:
I'm probably totally wrong but, if it's on a specified route, does it qualify as a taxi-bus?


a WHAT?

Mr Cabbyman wrote taxi-bus!

I think some sections of the Transport Act 1985 allowed for such things, with a raft of conditions & 'hoops to jump thro' before being legal & the HC trade just laughed.


I think this is available to PH also. I've yet to see a PH company take advantage either

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:29 pm 
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toots wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
cabbyman wrote:
I'm probably totally wrong but, if it's on a specified route, does it qualify as a taxi-bus?


a WHAT?

Mr Cabbyman wrote taxi-bus!

I think some sections of the Transport Act 1985 allowed for such things, with a raft of conditions & 'hoops to jump thro' before being legal & the HC trade just laughed.

I think this is available to PH also. I've yet to see a PH company take advantage either

I think it may have been made available through a recent Act, OR was it part of the Equality Bill before it received the Royal assent, but was eventually scrapped prior to it becoming legislation?

Don't know myself.

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Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:24 am 
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Location: Wirral
Quote:
I think it may have been made available through a recent Act, OR was it part of the Equality Bill before it received the Royal assent, but was eventually scrapped prior to it becoming legislation?

Don't know myself.


I do believe it was made available last year, as to whether it is still available I'm not sure. I shall endeavour to find out :D

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!


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