Taxi Driver Online

I don't know how well you have thought this through but I'm going to give you the opportunity, if you care to take it? To show us how you would amend the references to private hire "operator". I could have taken the words "private hire" out of the sections below and just left in the word operator but I thought it best not to tinker with what you had in mind. Therefore can you advise us how you intend to make it so that all us hackney carriage drivers don't have to write down a booking everytime we take a pre booked job whether it be off the street or over a mobile telephone and while either sat in the cab or at home or anywhere else for that matter?

Regards

JD
...............................................

46 Vehicle, drivers' and operators' licences (1) Except as authorised by this Part of this Act—

(a) no person being the proprietor of any vehicle, not being a hackney carriage [or London Cab] in respect of which a vehicle licence is in force, shall use or permit the same to be used in a controlled district as a private hire vehicle without having for such a vehicle a current licence under section 48 of this Act;

(b) no person shall in a controlled district act as driver of any private hire vehicle without having a current licence under section 51 of this Act;

(c) no person being the proprietor of a private hire vehicle licensed under
this Part of this Act shall employ as the driver thereof for the purpose of any hiring any person who does not have a current licence under the said section 51;

(d) no person shall in a controlled district operate any vehicle as a private hire vehicle without having a current licence under section 55 of this Act;

(e) no person licensed under the said section 55 shall in a controlled district operate any vehicle as a private hire vehicle—

(i) if for die vehicle a current licence under die said section 48 is not in
force; or (ii) if the driver does not have a current licence under the said
section 51.

(2) If any person knowingly contravenes the provisions of this section, he shall be guilty of an offence.

55 Licensing of operators of private hire vehicles (1) Subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act, a district council shall, on receipt of an application from any person for the grant to that person of a licence to operate private hire vehicles grant to that person an operator's licence:
Provided that a district council shall not grant a licence unless they are satisfied that the applicant is a fit and proper person to hold an operator's licence.

(2) Every licence granted under this section shall remain in force for such period, not being longer than five years, as a district council may specify in the licence.

(3) A district council may attach to the grant of a licence under this section such conditions as they may consider reasonably necessary.

(4) Any applicant aggrieved by the refusal of a district council to grant an operator's licence under this section, or by any conditions attached to the grant of such a licence, may appeal to a magistrates' court.

56 Operators of private hire vehicles (1) For the purposes of this Part of this Act every contract for the hire of a private hire vehicle licensed under this Part of this Act shall be deemed to be made with the operator who accepted the booking for that vehicle whether or not he himself provided the vehicle.

(2) Every person to whom a licence in force under section 55 of this Act has been granted by a district council shall keep a record in such form as the council may, by condition attached to the grant of the licence, prescribe and shall enter therein, before the commencement of each journey, such particulars of every booking of a private hire vehicle invited or accepted by him, whether by accepting the same from the hirer or by undertaking it at the request of another operator, as the district council may by condition prescribe and shall produce such record on request to any authorised officer of the council or to any constable for inspection.

(3) Every person to whom a licence in force under section 55 of this Act has been granted by a district council shall keep such records as the council may, by condition attached to the grant of the licence, prescribe of the particulars of any private hire vehicle operated by him and shall produce the same on request to any authorised officer of the council or to any constable for inspection.

(4) A person to whom a licence in force under section 5 5 of this Act has been granted by a district council shall produce the licence on request to any authorised officer of the council or any constable for inspection.

(5) If any person without reasonable excuse contravenes the provisions of this section, he shall be guilty of an offence.
.....................................

There is so much that needs changing that you can be forgiven for not be more diaphanous on those changes that are obviously needed. However it was you who posed the question so I thought you might have had something more substantial and specific in mind?


Many changes are needed and for my part I wouldn't attempt to say what they are without giving a breakdown of why they need changing and how I would go about changing them. I have already placed the Captain in the position of telling us how he would change the section he wants amended in the 1976 act in regard to operators without it having a wider impact on taxi drivers as a whole? I hope he can show us what his proposals are because I don't think he has thought this through?

The same could be said of the Liverpool delegation that went down to London to ask David Farmer to change the legislation in respect of cross border hiring they never produced or suggested how new legislation should be worded without it impacting on every hackney carriage driver?

The problem we have here is that no matter what perspective you look at this, people want change. The problem with that is, especially in the two cases I previously mentioned, is that they have failed to address the question of the wider implications.

The captain seems to think he can do away with the words "private hire" and everything will be hunky dory, perhaps they might but we have yet to see what his intention is?

Regards

JD

The intention, and I have no idea if it would be acceptable to other people in the NTA, never mind other stakeholders, is that people operating radio circuits that are purely hackney carriage based will have to be licensed.

Whether this is done by including hackney carriage proprietors within the current regulations or if it is done by adding onto one of the acts wouldn't be for me to decide.

After all, I wanted to see section 75 (1)(b) removed, but had little involvement in the workings and mechanics of how it was done.

There seems to be a situation where people who operate purely hackney carriage radio circuits are completely immune from any recourse, I would suggest this is not in the public interest or to the benefit of the public, as it is open to abuse.

regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

55 Licensing of operators of private hire vehicles (1) Subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act, a district council shall, on receipt of an application from any person for the grant to that person of a licence to operate private hire vehicles grant to that person an operator's licence:
Provided that a district council shall not grant a licence unless they are satisfied that the applicant is a fit and proper person to hold an operator's licence.

(2) Every licence granted under this section shall remain in force for such period, not being longer than five years, as a district council may specify in the licence.

(3) A district council may attach to the grant of a licence under this section such conditions as they may consider reasonably necessary.

(4) Any applicant aggrieved by the refusal of a district council to grant an operator's licence under this section, or by any conditions attached to the grant of such a licence, may appeal to a magistrates' court.

55 (a)

Licensing of 'Hackney Carriage Radio Circuits' (1) Subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act, a district council shall, on receipt of an application from any person for the grant to that person of a licence to operate a 'Hackney Carriage Radio Circuit' grant to that person a 'Hackney Carriage Radio Circuit' license:
Provided that a district council shall not grant a licence unless they are satisfied that the applicant is a fit and proper person to hold a 'Hackney Carriage Radio Circuit' licence.

(2) Every licence granted under this section shall remain in force for such period, not being longer than five years, as a district council may specify in the licence.

(3) A district council may attach to the grant of a licence under this section such conditions as they may consider reasonably necessary.

(4) Any applicant aggrieved by the refusal of a district council to grant an operator's licence under this section, or by any conditions attached to the grant of such a licence, may appeal to a magistrates' court.

56 Operators of private hire vehicles (1) For the purposes of this Part of this Act every contract for the hire of a private hire vehicle licensed under this Part of this Act shall be deemed to be made with the operator who accepted the booking for that vehicle whether or not he himself provided the vehicle.

(2) Every person to whom a licence in force under section 55 of this Act has been granted by a district council shall keep a record in such form as the council may, by condition attached to the grant of the licence, prescribe and shall enter therein, before the commencement of each journey, such particulars of every booking of a private hire vehicle invited or accepted by him, whether by accepting the same from the hirer or by undertaking it at the request of another operator, as the district council may by condition prescribe and shall produce such record on request to any authorised officer of the council or to any constable for inspection.

(3) Every person to whom a licence in force under section 55 of this Act has been granted by a district council shall keep such records as the council may, by condition attached to the grant of the licence, prescribe of the particulars of any private hire vehicle operated by him and shall produce the same on request to any authorised officer of the council or to any constable for inspection.

(4) A person to whom a licence in force under section 5 5 of this Act has been granted by a district council shall produce the licence on request to any authorised officer of the council or any constable for inspection.

(5) If any person without reasonable excuse contravenes the provisions of this section, he shall be guilty of an offence.

56 (a) Operators of 'Hackney Carriage Radio Circuits'

(1) For the purposes of this Part of this Act every pre booked contract for the hire of a Hackney Carriage under this Part of this Act shall be deemed to be made with the operator who accepted the booking for that vehicle whether or not he himself provided the vehicle.

(2) Every person to whom a licence in force under section 55 (a) of this Act has been granted by a district council shall keep a record in such form as the council may, by condition attached to the grant of the licence, prescribe and shall enter therein, before the commencement of each journey, such particulars of every booking of a Hackney Carriage invited or accepted by him, whether by accepting the same from the hirer or by undertaking it at the request of another operator, as the district council may by condition prescribe and shall produce such record on request to any authorised officer of the council or to any constable for inspection.

(3) Every person to whom a licence in force under section 55 (a) of this Act has been granted by a district council shall keep such records as the council may, by condition attached to the grant of the licence, prescribe of the particulars of any Hackney Carriage operated by him and shall produce the same on request to any authorised officer of the council or to any constable for inspection.

(4) A person to whom a licence in force under section 55 (a) of this Act has been granted by a district council shall produce the licence on request to any authorised officer of the council or any constable for inspection.

(5) If any person without reasonable excuse contravenes the provisions of this section, he shall be guilty of an offence.

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I thought the whole point of proposing something was that you had thought it through and ironed out any discrepancies that might present its self? Instead you tell us that you haven't thought it through only that you want it changing for whatever reason?

Lets pretend I'm the Chairman of your local association and I say right Wayne this resolution of yours to remove the words "private hire" from certain sections of the 1976 act. Have you thought this through? What are the pitfalls in the resolution? What specifically are you trying to achieve and how will the removal of the words "private hire" impact on other sections of the act?

Its alright putting forward amendments but if you don't know the consequences it might have on other aspects of legislation then to my mind it is ill thought out? Section 75 1 B was a straightforward deletion and totally different to what you want. If you delete the words "private hire" you're impacting on many aspects of hackney carriage legislation because you will also have to remove references to hackney carriages and bring them into line with private hire.

What you propose has not been thought out and in my personal opinion I think it is bordering on the irresponsible.

I know you said you had resigned from chaiman of your local organisation but are you still on the committee? I don't know how you work up there in Carlisle but I was under the impression your proposal would have to be adopted by the committee in order for it to be presented to the NTA branch meeting? Considering you are now just an ordinary member of your local association I was wondering how you were able to be present at a regional NTA meeting?

Regards

JD

Now you have to define what constitutes a hackney carriage radio circuit?

Regards

JD

Your entitled to your opinion, I actually think its a lot more irresponsible to have a situation where the public could be at risk from an unlicensed radio circuit.

A proposal is put forward and then scrutinised, its either then adopted or dropped, that's usually the way with democracy.

Anything put forward would be scrutinized by other stakeholders, they would have impact too and if it was too contentious a proposal I doubt it would get through.

regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Definition of operate.

"operate" means in the course of business to make provision for the invitation or acceptance of bookings for a private hire vehicle;

So your going to have to amend the above or insert another definition to exlude the word "operate" in respect of individiual hackney carriage drivers which makes it legal for them to make provision for a private hire, no matter where it takes place?

Then your going to have to ammend section 46 which states.

46 Vehicle, drivers' and operators' licences (1) Except as authorised by this Part of this Act—
(a) no person being the proprietor of any vehicle, not being a hackney carriage [or London Cab] in respect of which a vehicle licence is in force, shall use or permit the same to be used in a controlled district as a private hire vehicle without having for such a vehicle a current
licence under section 48 of this Act;

Regards

JD

I was going to mention section 80 JD

regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Of course we could refer to what one of the Judges stated in Gladen;

So far as the driver is concerned, byelaws under s 68 of the Act can be imposed, and as far as I can see there is no reason in principle why, if there is a problem in any particular district, the local council should not decide to try to impose byelaws which require a driver to provide the information which they regard as desirable in the interests of the public and to keep records which equally are considered desirable. If any council which has a problem is able to persuade the Department that some such conditions are needed, then no doubt they could be imposed. But that is as far as it can go.

regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Of course one suggestion could be for the repeal of the 76 act and nationwide adoption of the London PH act.

regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

JD. you don't open a book and go immediately to the end, the first part is to get people sitting round a table, people with the skill and knowledge, to look at changes and how to word them correctly, I will not be one of them..

_________________
Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

This one looks quite argumentative

Prohibition of certain advertisements.

31. - (1) This section applies to any advertisement-

(a) indicating that vehicles can be hired on application to a specified address in London;

(b) indicating that vehicles can be hired by telephone on a telephone number being the number of premises in London; or

(c) on or near any premises in London, indicating that vehicles can be hired at those premises.

(2) No such advertisement shall include-

(a) any of the following words, namely "taxi", "taxis", "cab" or "cabs", or

(b) any word so closely resembling any of those words as to be likely to be mistaken for it, (whether alone or as part of another word), unless the vehicles offered for hire are London cabs.

(3) An advertisement which includes the word "minicab", "mini-cab" or "mini cab" (whether in the singular or plural) does not by reason only of that fact contravene this section.

(4) Any person who issues, or causes to be issued, an advertisement which contravenes this section is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.

(5) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that-

(a) he is a person whose business it is to publish or arrange for the publication of advertisements;

(b) he received the advertisement in question for publication in the ordinary course of business; and

(c) he did not know and had no reason to suspect that its publication would amount to an offence under this section.

(6) In this section-

"advertisement" includes every form of advertising (whatever the medium) and references to the issue of an advertisement shall be construed accordingly;

"telephone number" includes any number used for the purposes of communicating with another by electronic means; and "telephone" shall be construed accordingly.

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Well we are moving on from statutory legislation to that of bylaws for "drivers" but is it not your intention to exclude individual drivers in any reform and only incorporate radio circuits? I don't think we should get sidetracked on driver bylaws unless you wan't to change tack and go down that road? You would have a major problem going down that road as bylaws are secondary to statute legislation, therefore you are right back where you started from.

Notice the words, "Try" and "peruade" in that judgement reference you quoted. I think you should take note of those but I also think you realise the only way forward for your proposal is by way of ammending statute legislation.

Regards

JD

I think the best way for us, is to pick one piece of legislation that everybody agrees needs changing, then work on it until it's right..... but that won't be my job..... my job is a little bit more specialised......

_________________
Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!