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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:06 am 
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Myself and a few colleagues have been milling over the issue of cross border hiring but I thought it prudent to expand the debate into open forum even though we have discussed the issue many times.

For those that don't know, a private hire operator in England or Wales has never been prosecuted for the specific offence of sub contracting. I suppose that's because there is no specific offence of sub contracting in the 1976 act. However when certain sections of the 1976 act are breached then collectively according to Latham and Forbes in shanks, an offence of sub contracting can be made out.

Not many of us know the finite details of the shanks case in respect of the issue of sub contracting from one private hire operator to another, in circumstances where both are licensed in different areas. However the magistrates court asked the high court to clarify the issue of sub contracts and that is what they did albeit in my opinion it could have been handed down with a little more clarity in respect of remote operators.

I have to say there is a split amongst UK licensing officers namely in England and Wales as to the validity of the ruling. I say that because many licensing officers believe sub contracting to a licensed operator in another area is legal.

Whatever my opinion I feel there is more mileage to be had on this issue with regard to litigation, however I personally feel compelled to agree with the Shanks ruling in so far that it probably does cover sub contracting to remote operators even though as I said previosly that I feel the ruling should have expressed greater clarity.
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NORTH TYNESIDE COUNCIL v (1) PAUL THOMAS SHANKS (2) IAN GORDON SHANKS (3) JANE BELL (T/A BLUE LINE TAXIS) (2001)

DC (Latham LJ, Forbes J) 29/6/2001

LICENSING - LOCAL GOVERNMENT - TRANSPORT

S.46, S.46(1)(A), S.46(1)(B), S.46(1)(E), S.46(1)(E)(I), S.46(1)(E)(II), S.48, S.51, S.55, S.62(1)(A), S.80, S.80(2) LOCAL GOVERNMENT (MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS) ACT 1976 :

APPEAL BY WAY OF CASE STATED : OPERATORS' LICENCES : TAXIS : CROSS BORDER HIRING : CONTROLLED DISTRICT : LICENSED DRIVERS : LICENSED VEHICLES : SUB CONTRACTS


Under a proper construction of s.46 and s.80 Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, whenever any operator acted by making provision for accepting bookings for the hire of vehicles he had to use vehicles and drivers licensed by his local authority.

Appeal by way of case stated by the justices for the Commission Area of Tyne and Wear acting in and for the Petty Sessional Area of North Tyneside in respect of their adjudication as a Magistrates Court. Until 22 June 1999 the three appellants jointly held an operators' licence issued by North Tyneside Council pursuant to s.55 of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 ("the Act") trading as Blue Line Taxis (North Tyneside) in Wallsend. On 22 June 1999 North Tyneside Council pursuant to s.62(1)(a) of the Act refused to renew that licence.

Two of the three appellants also jointly held an operators' licence issued by Newcastle City Council pursuant to s.55 of the Act trading as Blue Line Taxis (Newcastle) in Gosforth. Blue Line Taxis (North Tyneside) and Blue Line (Newcastle) mutually agreed to accept any bookings requested by the other through the shared booking system based at the office in Wallsend in 1996.

It was contended by the appellants that their "cross border" hiring arrangement did not contravene the licensing provisions of the Act and that, on a proper construction of s.46 and s.80 of the Act, they, as an operator licensed in a controlled district, in this case North Tyneside, were obliged to make use of licensed drivers and licensed vehicles and entitled to make use of drivers and vehicles licensed in another controlled district.

The issue arose over the proper construction of s.46 and s.80 of the Act.

The appellants argued that they were operating a bona fide subcontracting arrangement and that when they dispatched Newcastle licensed vehicles and drivers in response to bookings made through their North Tyneside office they were, in effect, dispatching them on behalf of Blue Line (Newcastle), a separate firm operating in a Newcastle controlled district.

The justices found against the appellants. The questions for the High Court from the justices were therefore:

(i) were they correct in their finding that s.46(1)(e) of the Act must be read subject to the provisions of s.80(2) and that accordingly the appellants as holders of an operators' licence issued in North Tyneside should only operate in that controlled district vehicles and drivers licensed in North Tyneside by the respondent council;

(ii) were they correct in rejecting the appellants' submission that "the references to licences in s.46(1)(e)(i) and (ii) should be construed, by virtue of the references to "the said section 48" and "the said section 51" in ss.46(1)(e)(i) and (ii) respectively, as references to licences issued by the council for the "controlled district" as referred to in s.46(1)(a) and (b), so that where an operator operated a vehicle in a controlled district, the vehicle and driver in question were not required to be licensed by the authority for the same district but were merely to be licensed by an authority in accordance with s.6(1)(a) and (b);

(iii) were they correct in finding that when the appellants "sub-contracted" a booking for a vehicle to Blue Line (Newcastle) that the appellant operated the vehicle which undertook the booking within the meaning of s.80(1) of the Act; (iv) were they entitled to conclude, on the facts, that the appellants' business was conducted in contravention of s.46(1)(e) of the Act.

HELD: The same issue had been considered in the case of Dittah v Birmingham City Council (1993) RTR 356.


Although the court was not strictly bound to follow the decision in Dittah, that case was not decided per incuriam but was correctly decided. The central principle of the legislation had been that authorities responsible for granting licences should have proper control of the operators of private hire vehicles within their area.

Although there may well have been advantages to the public gained by a more flexible approach to the legislation, there were good policy reasons for that approach not being taken, namely consistency and control over provision of private hire vehicles and authorities. The development in modern communication systems had in part tended to make the Act look too restrictive, but this was a matter to be dealt with by Parliament, not the court.

The answer to the problem on the construction on s.46 (1)(e) was clear: whenever any operator acted by making provision for accepting bookings for the hire of vehicles he must use vehicles and drivers licensed by his local Authority. Consequently he could not obtain the use of vehicles or drivers licensed by another authority. Under those circumstances, the justices had come to a correct conclusion in law and each of the justice's questions were to be answered in the affirmative.

Appeal dismissed.

Cherie Booth QC and Deok Joo Rhee instructed by Nicolson Morgan for the appellants. John McGuiness QC instructed by North Tyneside Council Legal Department for the respondent.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:12 pm 
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Thanks for bringing this to the attention of the forum JD.

I think the following statement from the court case is one that has been echoed on numerous other occasions by the courts;

Although there may well have been advantages to the public gained by a more flexible approach to the legislation, there were good policy reasons for that approach not being taken, namely consistency and control over provision of private hire vehicles and authorities. The development in modern communication systems had in part tended to make the Act look too restrictive, but this was a matter to be dealt with by Parliament, not the court.

I tend to think this means that the judge is aware that sub contracting between operators goes on, but he believes it and the changes in modern communications are a matter for legislative change not the judiciary.

Additionally, it is a fact of private hire licensing that the contract is between the operator who accepts the booking and the customer.

Having stated the above, I am prepared to have an open mind on what I have read.

Mr Button, President of the IOL, seems fairly convinced that sub contracting between operators isn't permitted, this was the same person who stated HC proprietors needed PH Operators licenses to accept pre-bookings. Therefore anything is plausible.

I look forward to reading some positive debate.

regards

CC

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:37 pm 
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JD wrote:
I say that because many licensing officers believe sub contracting to a licensed operator in another area is legal.

Is anyone surprised about that? :sad:

Section 46 of the 1976 act includes these subsections;

(d) no person shall in a controlled district operate any vehicle as a private hire vehicle without having a current licence under section 55 of this Act;
(e) no person licensed under the said section 55 shall in a controlled district operate any vehicle as a private hire vehicle—
(i) if for die vehicle a current licence under die said section 48 is not in force; or (ii) if the driver does not have a current licence under the said
section 51.


In the Dittah case, LJ Kennedy says;

Mr Raggatt placed before us a letter dated June 25, 1992 from the Department of Transport to the District Secretary of the Bromsgrove District Council, para 3 of which reads:

"In our view applying s 80(2) to ss 46(1)(d) and (e) has the effect that an operator requires a licence from the area in which he intends to operate and may operate only in that area vehicles and drivers licensed by the same district. This has the practical effect that an operator licensed in area A may only use vehicles and drivers licensed in area A but these vehicles and drivers will by virtue of s 75(2) exemption be able to go anywhere in the course of the hiring."

That in my judgment is an accurate statement of the law, whatever may have been said elsewhere in the past.


It's also worthy to note that certain people in the PH trade want the MoM grouping to change section 46 to allow cross-border hiring. :sad:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:44 pm 
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The current situation (well as we thought we knew it) allows a PH operator to establish a national call centre in London or Plymouth and then sub contract the bookings across the UK. But a PH operator based elsewhere in the UK can't do similar?

CC

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:56 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
The current situation (well as we thought we knew it) allows a PH operator to establish a national call centre in London

I'm not so sure about that. :?

Section 2
Requirement for London operator’s licence


(1) No person shall in London make provision for the invitation or acceptance of, or accept, private hire bookings unless he is the holder of a private hire vehicle operator’s licence for London (in this Act referred to as a “London PHV operator’s licence”).

So anyone operating from London needs a London operator's license.

Section 4
Obligations of London operators

(2) A London PHV operator shall secure that any vehicle which is provided by him for carrying out a private hire booking accepted by him in London is—

(a) a vehicle for which a London PHV licence is in force driven by a person holding a London PHV driver’s licence; or

(b) a London cab driven by a person holding a London cab driver’s licence.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:43 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
captain cab wrote:
The current situation (well as we thought we knew it) allows a PH operator to establish a national call centre in London

I'm not so sure about that. :?

Section 2
Requirement for London operator’s licence


(1) No person shall in London make provision for the invitation or acceptance of, or accept, private hire bookings unless he is the holder of a private hire vehicle operator’s licence for London (in this Act referred to as a “London PHV operator’s licence”).

So anyone operating from London needs a London operator's license.

Section 4
Obligations of London operators

(2) A London PHV operator shall secure that any vehicle which is provided by him for carrying out a private hire booking accepted by him in London is—

(a) a vehicle for which a London PHV licence is in force driven by a person holding a London PHV driver’s licence; or

(b) a London cab driven by a person holding a London cab driver’s licence.


OK provided they have a London PH Op's license

CC

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:58 pm 
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All this info hurts my head eusasmiles.zip

I wish they would sort it out once and for all and make the matter clear for even the most idiot of operators to understand. Would it be too difficult to add a clause that says something along the lines of 'it is/is not permitted for a licenced operator to sub contract work to others even if though the others may have a licence in another authority.

They would also need to apply a section relating to associated companys in different areas 'it is/is not permitted for company's to sub contract to another company in a different authority even if the said companies are related'

Obviouly it would have to be in legal talk and not in toot talk

I swear they leave things with loop holes in them just to keep themselves busy in the future sorting out the mess they made when the introduced the legislation

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:02 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
OK provided they have a London PH Op's license

Well even then, IMO, they can only pass that work to a London licensed vehicle and driver.

Section 4
Obligations of London operators

(2) A London PHV operator shall secure that any vehicle which is provided by him for carrying out a private hire booking accepted by him in London is—

(a) a vehicle for which a London PHV licence is in force driven by a person holding a London PHV driver’s licence; or

(b) a London cab driven by a person holding a London cab driver’s licence.


Unless we are saying that 'provided' doesn't mean subcontracted outside of London. But if someone rings a London PH firm any vehicle they supply will be provided by them. :?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:55 pm 
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another bit of archaic legislation

i can take a job from a customer from LHR to here

if another firm from here books me to collect thier customer from LHR its illegal?

but hold on, if that firm pays me, arent THEY my customer?

if they tell the passengers to ring me direct thats NOT illegal?

isnt the overriding priority that only a properly insured (be it HC or PH) vehicle/driver do the job?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Is it illegal for accepting sub contract from companies i.e. language schools

If not, then there’s no difference.

making provision for the invitation or acceptance of, or accept, private hire bookings


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:38 pm 
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and technically it could be argued that if a circuit takes a job off a customer (either cash or account/even a school) and passes it to one of its self employed owner drivers then that constitutes sub-contracting.....


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:32 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
if another firm from here books me to collect thier customer from LHR its illegal?

No.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:34 pm 
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meltingsmoke wrote:
Is it illegal for accepting sub contract from companies i.e. language schools

No, in the same way it's not illegal to receive work from pub landlords, restaurant managers, casino/hotel receptionists etc etc.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:35 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
and technically it could be argued that if a circuit takes a job off a customer (either cash or account/even a school) and passes it to one of its self employed owner drivers then that constitutes sub-contracting.....

No, that constitutes operating.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:39 pm 
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thats 3 straight "no's", so what IS illegal then?....


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