wannabeeahack wrote:
As a driver it sprobably easiest to die in the accident, meaning any claim would be against your estate, of which i have none...
No yours is an MPV.
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| A Hypothetical Imaginary Scenario; Your views please!! http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11716 |
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| Author: | Brummie Cabbie [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | A Hypothetical Imaginary Scenario; Your views please!! |
A Hypothetical Imaginary Scenario; Your views please!! This article has been quite difficult to write & I have had to choose my words very carefully. It is necessarily quite ambiguous, with many possibilities, variables and scenarios. The reason for this will become apparent, probably later this year. Sorry I am unable to, & cannot, elaborate at this stage. Please give your views on the details listed below ONLY. The Hypothetical Imaginary Scenario is as follows; YOU are a licensed driver, either a Hackney Carriage driver or a Private Hire driver; it matters not in this case. Or at least I don’t think it does. You take a job via your radio circuit/dispatch system to pick up passengers from a medical institution or facility. On arrival you make contact with the passengers. There are two passengers; one a child over 10 years old but under 16 years old and the other a parent of that child; the responsible adult. It is immediately quite evident to you that the child clearly needs the accompaniment of the responsible adult. The child may be able-bodied, or disabled. The child gets into, or is loaded into your licensed vehicle first and there are, at this stage, three scenarios. In the first scenario you ask the responsible adult whether the child should be strapped into the vehicle in the appropriate manner, using the seat belt or belts. In the second scenario you start to strap the child into the vehicle in the appropriate manner, using the seat belt or belts, but are then told by the responsible adult that it is not necessary. And in the third scenario the responsible adult advises you, before the child gets into, or is loaded into the vehicle, that it is not necessary to strap the child into the vehicle in the appropriate manner, using the seat belt or belts. In all three scenarios the child is NOT strapped into the vehicle & restrained using the seat belt or belts available in the licensed vehicle. The responsible adult then gets into your licensed vehicle and you set off to drive your passengers to their destination. During the journey there is an incident, which results in you having to brake very hard & you do an emergency stop. There is NO collision. It becomes quickly apparent to both the licensed driver and responsible adult that the child has suffered serious injury. NO further details are available. Questions; Who is at fault? Where does the blame lie? Is the driver to blame or is the responsible adult at fault? Are neither at fault or to blame? Your views please. |
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| Author: | gusmac [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:58 am ] |
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The law says the driver is responsible for children under 14 wearing a seat belt. I read somewhere that this doesn't apply in a vehicle with a partition. |
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| Author: | gusmac [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:20 pm ] |
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As for the child's injuries, I would say that the bulk of the blame there attaches to the responsible adult. Did anyone witness the driver being told not to belt in the child? |
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:28 pm ] |
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Seat Belts & Child Restraints Taxis and Private Hire Cars The law is exactly the same as for children travelling in cars. Taxis and private hire cars - Children under 3 years old If carried in the front seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be used (the adult seat belt is not sufficient) If carried in the rear seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be used, IF AVAILABLE. If an appropriate restraint is fitted in the front of the car, but not the rear, children under 3 years old MUST sit in the front and use that restraint. (Remember, you could move the restraint from the front to the rear if you wish, and you should do this if you are using a rearward-facing baby seat and there is a passenger airbag fitted). Taxis and private hire cars - Children Aged 3 to 11 years and under 1.5 metres tall If carried in the front seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE. If not, an adult seat belt MUST be worn. If carried in the rear seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE. If not, an adult seat belt MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE. If an appropriate restraint or seat belt is fitted in the front of the car, but not in the rear, children between 3 to 11 years old and under 1.5 metres tall MUST use that restraint or seat belt. (Remember, you could move the restraint from the front to the rear if you wish). Taxis and private hire cars - Children Aged 12 or 13 years or younger children 1.5 metres or more in height If carried in the front or rear seat, an adult seat belt MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE. Taxis and private hire cars - Passengers Over 14 years old If carried in the front or rear seat, an adult seat belt MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE. Other Vehicles (vans, buses, coaches, minibuses and goods vehicles) Other Vehicles - Front Seats The law requires children (and adults) travelling in the front of all vehicles, including vans, buses, coaches, minibuses and goods vehicles to use an appropriate child restraint or adult seat belt, if they are available. Children cannot be carried in the front seat of any vehicle that has seat belts fitted unless they are either in a child restraint or are using the seat belt. Other Vehicles - Rear Seats All coaches and minibuses manufactured or first used on or after 1 October 2001 must be fitted with seat belts. In earlier vehicles, children (aged 3 to 15 years) on organised trips (including home to school travel) must be provided with seat belts and a forward-facing seat. (Buses used for public services, and which are designed to carry standing passengers, do not have seat belts fitted). The law requires children travelling in the rear of small minibuses (with an unladen weight of 2,540 kgs or less) to wear seat belts or to use an appropriate child restraint, if available. It is the driver's responsibility to ensure that children under the age of 14 years are either using an appropriate child restraint or an adult seat belt if available. The law presently does not require children to wear seat belts in the rear of larger minibuses or coaches. However, if seat belts are fitted they should be used. A seat belt can only protect the wearer if it is being worn. More Passengers than Seat Belts If there are not enough seat belts or child restraints in the car for all the passengers, then some may legally travel in the rear of the vehicle without wearing a seat belt. This may be legal, but it is not safe. Between 8 and 15 front seat occupants are killed every year by unbelted rear seat passengers flying forward in an accident. The safest option is to only carry the same number of passengers as there are seat belts. If necessary, use two cars or make two journeys for the trip. If you must carry a passenger for whom there is no seat belt, it is better for the heaviest passengers to wear a seat belt, because they would cause more severe injuries to other people in the car if they are thrown about in a crash. Legal Penalties If you are convicted of failing to wear a seat belt as a driver or passenger, you could face a fine of up to £500. As a driver, if you are convicted of failing to ensure that a child passenger is using an appropriate child restraint or wearing a seat belt according to the legal requirements described above, you could face a fine of up to £500. In addition to the legal penalties, failure to wear a seat belt or failure to ensure that a child passenger uses an appropriate child restraint or wears a seat belt according to the legal requirements described above, could affect any claims against your motor insurance cover. You could also face civil proceedings for damages, if (for example) you failed to safely carry someone else's child. |
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
As a driver it sprobably easiest to die in the accident, meaning any claim would be against your estate, of which i have none... |
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Cars The law requires all children travelling in cars to use the correct child restraint until they are either 135 cm in height or the age of 12 (which ever they reach first) . After this they must use an adult seat belt. There are very few exceptions, and the main ones are set out below. It is the driver's responsibility to ensure that children under the age of 14 years are restrained correctly in accordance with the law. Click here to go back to the top of the page.Children up to 3 years old Children up to 3 years old MUST use the correct child restraint.In the Front Seat The child MUST use the correct child restraint. It is illegal to carry a child in a rear-facing child seat in the front, which is protected by an active frontal airbag. In the Rear Seat The child MUST use the correct child restraint. In a licensed taxi or licensed hire car, if a child restraint is not available then the child may travel unrestrained in the rear. This is the only exception for children under 3, and has been introduced for practical rather than safety reasons. You should always think about ways to make sure that a child seat is available. It is the driver's legal responsibility to ensure that the child is correctly restrained. Click here to return to the top of the page. Children aged 3 and above, until they reach EITHER their 12th birthday OR 135cm in height Children over 3 and up to 135 cms in height or the age of 12 MUST use a child restraint,with very few exceptions.In the Front Seat The child MUST use the correct child restraint. In the Rear Seat The child MUST use the correct restraint, where seat belts are fitted. There are three exceptions where there is not a child seat available. In each case the child MUST use the adult belt instead. They are - 1) in a licensed taxi or private hire vehicle; 2) if the child is travelling on a short distance for reason of unexpected necessity; 3) if there are two occupied child restraints in the rear which prevent the fitment of a third. In addition, a child 3 and over may travel unrestrained in the rear seat of a vehicle if seat belts are not available. It is the driver's legal responsibility to ensure that the child is correctly restrained. Click here to return to the top of the page. Children over 1.35 metres in height, or who are 12 or 13 years old Children who are over 135cms in height, or who are 12 or 13 years old MUST use the adult seat belt In the Front Seat The adult seat belt MUST be worn if available. In the Rear Seat The adult seat belt MUST be worn if available. It is the driver's legal responsibility to ensure that the child is correctly restrained. Click here to go back to the top of the page.Passengers Over 14 years old When travelling in the front or rear seat, an adult seat belt MUST be worn if available. It is the responsibility of the individual passenger to ensure that they are wearing the seat belt. Other Vehicles (vans, buses, coaches, minibuses and goods vehicles) Click here to go back to the top of the page.Other Vehicles - Front Seats The law requires children (and adults) travelling in the front of all vehicles, including vans, buses, coaches, minibuses and goods vehicles to use an appropriate child restraint or adult seat belts. Click here to go back to the top of the page.Other Vehicles - Rear Seats Rear Seats in Small Minibuses Passengers sitting in the rear of minibuses that have an unladen weight of 2,540 kg or less must wear the seat belts that are provided. It is the driver’s responsibility to ensure that : * children under 3 years of age use an appropriate child restraint if available. * children aged between 3 and 11 years, under 1.35 metres tall use an appropriate child restraint if available, or if not available, wear the seat belt, if available. * children aged 12 and 13 years (and younger children who are 1.35 metres or taller) use the seat belt, if available. Passengers over the age of 14 years in smaller minibuses are legally responsible for wearing a seat belt themselves. Rear Seats in Larger Minibuses Passengers over the age of 14 MUST wear seat belts in the rear of larger minibuses (over 2,540 kg unladen weight). However, all passengers are strongly advised to wear seat belts or the correct child seat on all journeys. Rear Seats in Coaches Passengers over the age of 14 MUST wear seat belts in the rear coaches. However, all passengers are strongly advised to wear seat belts or the correct child seat on all journeys. Click here to go back to the top of the page.Summary of the Seat Belt Laws for Cars, Taxis and Private Hire Cars Front seat Rear seat Who is responsible? Driver Seat belt MUST be worn if available. Driver Children under 3 years old Correct child restraint MUST be used. Correct child restraint MUST be used If one is not available in a taxi, then the child may travel unrestrained in the rear Driver Children aged 3 and above, until they reach EITHER their 12th birthday OR 135cm in height Correct child restraint MUST be used Where seat belts fitted, correct child restraint MUST be used MUST use adult belt if the correct child restraint is not available in three scenarios: - in a in a licensed taxi or private hire vehicle ; - for a short distance for reason of unexpected necessity; - two occupied child restraints prevent fitment of a third. In addition, a child 3 and over may travel unrestrained in the rear seat of a vehicle if seat belts are not available Driver Child over 1.35 metres, or 12 to 13 years Seat belt MUST be worn if available Seat belt MUST be worn if available Driver Adult passengers (ie 14 years and over) Seat belt MUST be worn if available Seat belt MUST be worn if avai |
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
As with the loading of any commercial vehicle it will always be the drivers fault |
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| Author: | grandad [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
wannabeeahack wrote: As a driver it sprobably easiest to die in the accident, meaning any claim would be against your estate, of which i have none...
No yours is an MPV.
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:25 pm ] |
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grandad wrote: wannabeeahack wrote: As a driver it sprobably easiest to die in the accident, meaning any claim would be against your estate, of which i have none... No yours is an MPV. it wont be after the accident, it will £80/tonne mixed.... |
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| Author: | Smoked Glass [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:59 pm ] |
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In the first scenario you ask the responsible adult whether the child should be strapped into the vehicle in the appropriate manner, using the seat belt or belts. In the second scenario you start to strap the child into the vehicle in the appropriate manner, using the seat belt or belts, but are then told by the responsible adult that it is not necessary. And in the third scenario the responsible adult advises you, before the child gets into, or is loaded into the vehicle, that it is not necessary to strap the child into the vehicle in the appropriate manner, using the seat belt or belts. ANSWER>>> >1] You don’t ask whether the child should be strapped in you tell them! >2] You should never attempt to strap a child in yourself as you would then be putting yourself in a situation of being too personal. You would then be responsible for that child if he or she was slipped out of the seat belt & injured themselves, or you incorrectly fitted it [child seats too]. >3] You are the driver YOU are responsible for your vehicle not the parent. A responsible parent would never advise a driver that their child does not need a seat belt. If the parent refuses your request you should not drive them anywhere. If you did your insurance company & licensing office would take a dim view of it |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:24 pm ] |
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If you are talking criminal fault, then the taxi driver can be done for not ensuring seat belts being worn, if not in a partitioned cab. But IMO that would mean a fine of no-more than £100 for a first offence. Clearly it will be the police that prosecute, and TBH I doubt they will. If you are talking civil fault (i.e. insurance claim), then IMO that would be hard for the customers to claim, as long as there where working seat belts available. The driver would have to be proved to be reckless, and I doubt that could be proved. |
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| Author: | Smoked Glass [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:11 pm ] |
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Sussex wrote: If you are talking criminal fault, then the taxi driver can be done for not ensuring seat belts being worn, if not in a partitioned cab. But IMO that would mean a fine of no-more than £100 for a first offence. Clearly it will be the police that prosecute, and TBH I doubt they will. well we have give our legal view but what would we do in that situation?? I think I would leave it up to the parent & take them to their destination. I should, just refuse to go until they belt up, but what about the agro!! If you are talking civil fault (i.e. insurance claim), then IMO that would be hard for the customers to claim, as long as there where working seat belts available. The driver would have to be proved to be reckless, and I doubt that could be proved. 
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:48 pm ] |
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what really happens is Shaun and Tracey decide little Beyonce suffered brain damage and are gonna sue you and the hospital, the NHS settle out of court, you didnt have PL insurance and your vehicle insurers decide you were at fault and they aint paying Shaun and Tracey (with thier other 4 kids - all with different surnames) get on the front page of the local rag "uninsured Taxi driver robbed us of our future" and you never get any trade again Shaun and Tracey (and by now 6 kids - 4 white, 2 black) sell thier story to The Sun but forget to tell the DSS and have thier benefits stopped You (the driver) get your tyres slashed and windows put through at home and your children picked on at school. Shaun and Tracey (7 children) split up "due to pressure", Tracey (now 19 stone due to comfort eating) gets on "Fat Club" and Shaun is on Jeremy Kyle "We lost our child due to negligence" and Max Clifford decides he doesnt wish to handle them anymore The 8 kids are taken into care |
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| Author: | Smoked Glass [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:46 pm ] |
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wannabeeahack wrote: what really happens is Shaun and Tracey decide little Beyonce suffered brain damage and are gonna sue you and the hospital, the NHS settle out of court, you didnt have PL insurance and your vehicle insurers decide you were at fault and they aint paying Shaun and Tracey (with thier other 4 kids - all with different surnames) get on the front page of the local rag "uninsured Taxi driver robbed us of our future" and you never get any trade again Shaun and Tracey (and by now 6 kids - 4 white, 2 black) sell thier story to The Sun but forget to tell the DSS and have thier benefits stopped You (the driver) get your tyres slashed and windows put through at home and your children picked on at school. Shaun and Tracey (7 children) split up "due to pressure", Tracey (now 19 stone due to comfort eating) gets on "Fat Club" and Shaun is on Jeremy Kyle "We lost our child due to negligence" and Max Clifford decides he doesnt wish to handle them anymore The 8 kids are taken into care yes but would you take them??? yes or no???
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| Author: | skippy41 [ Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:57 am ] |
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I would refuse to move as well, until the child is belted in, they are in my cab and I am responsible for there safety regardless of if there is an adult with them or a patition, and yes i know there isnt one in a skoda
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