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Suspended Vehicle Licence - can they remove my plates
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Author:  Staffs Taxi Man [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Suspended Vehicle Licence - can they remove my plates
Hi guys.

I have a PH vehicle which failed a routine test. Are the LA legally allowed to remove the plates immediately once they have served a suspension notice? They've advised me they will return the plate to me immediately once I have had the fault with the vehicle repaired.

Thanks.
Author:  simonsmitch [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:50 am ]
Post subject: 
I think your answer is yes, due to your vehicle been unroadworthy. There will be a charge for you plate returned if memory serves me correct.

Si

P.S ask your LA for a copy of their Rules....
Author:  grandad [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
In Nottingham, the plates are removed before the test and you only get them back when the car has passed.
Author:  captain cab [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd say no, but then I'm awkward. Will check out the legislation after my shift.

CC
Author:  toots [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
grandad wrote:
In Nottingham, the plates are removed before the test and you only get them back when the car has passed.


How can they remove the plate if it hasn't run out? We have our test and if there is work that needs doing it has to be done and retested before the new plate is issued. If it is a serious fault with the vehicle the testing station notify the licensing dept who then request the operator to disable the driver until the work is completed. I have however known the LO to remove plates from vehicles when they are out on a blitz with the VOSA guys.
Author:  grandad [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
toots wrote:
grandad wrote:
In Nottingham, the plates are removed before the test and you only get them back when the car has passed.


How can they remove the plate if it hasn't run out? We have our test and if there is work that needs doing it has to be done and retested before the new plate is issued. If it is a serious fault with the vehicle the testing station notify the licensing dept who then request the operator to disable the driver until the work is completed. I have however known the LO to remove plates from vehicles when they are out on a blitz with the VOSA guys.


When you take the car in for a test, it is assumed that new plates will be issued when the car has been through the test. If it oasses then the new plates are fixed to the car. If it fails then it is not fit for use until faults are fixed so no plate is issued until such time.
Author:  toots [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
grandad wrote:
toots wrote:
grandad wrote:
In Nottingham, the plates are removed before the test and you only get them back when the car has passed.


How can they remove the plate if it hasn't run out? We have our test and if there is work that needs doing it has to be done and retested before the new plate is issued. If it is a serious fault with the vehicle the testing station notify the licensing dept who then request the operator to disable the driver until the work is completed. I have however known the LO to remove plates from vehicles when they are out on a blitz with the VOSA guys.


When you take the car in for a test, it is assumed that new plates will be issued when the car has been through the test. If it oasses then the new plates are fixed to the car. If it fails then it is not fit for use until faults are fixed so no plate is issued until such time.


We can put our vehicles through before the end of plate in fact they recommend it. Minor things such as paint work etc which it will fail on but is not dangerous can be done and then it can be put back through. Saves you being off the road for minor faults :wink:
Author:  Sussex [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspended Vehicle Licence - can they remove my plates
Staffs Taxi Man wrote:
Hi guys.

I have a PH vehicle which failed a routine test. Are the LA legally allowed to remove the plates immediately once they have served a suspension notice? They've advised me they will return the plate to me immediately once I have had the fault with the vehicle repaired.

Thanks.

Not really sure the point of removing plates as it doesn't stop drivers working, if they want to take a chance.

But I think they can, if they have good reason.

What was the fault? :?
Author:  captain cab [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
The act seems quite specific on this.

58 Return of identification plate or disc on revocation or expiry of licence etc..

(1)On—.

(a)the revocation or expiry of a vehicle licence in relation to a hackney carriage or private hire vehicle; or.

(b)the suspension of a licence under section 68 of this Act;.

a district council may by notice require the proprietor of that hackney carriage or private hire vehicle licensed by them to return to them within seven days after the service on him of that notice the plate or disc which—

(a)in the case of a hackney carriage, is required to be affixed to the carriage as mentioned in section 38 of the Act of 1847; and.

(b)in the case of a private hire vehicle, was issued for the vehicle under section 48(5) of this Act..

(2)If any proprietor fails without reasonable excuse to comply with the terms of a notice under subsection (1) of this section—.

(a)he shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [F1level 3 on the standard scale] and to a daily fine not exceeding ten pounds; and.

(b)any authorised officer of the council or constable shall be entitled to remove and retain the said plate or disc from the said hackney carriage or private hire vehicle..

Annotations:
Amendments (Textual)
F1Words substituted by virtue of Criminal Justice Act 1982 (c. 48, SIF 39:1), ss. 38, 46

Modifications etc. (not altering text)
C1S. 58: functions of local authority not to be responsibility of an executive of the authority (E.) (16.11.2000) by virtue of S.I. 2000/2853, reg. 2(1), Sch. 1 Table B3,5

Section 68 refers to;

68 Fitness of hackney carriages and private hire vehicles..

Any authorised officer of the council in question or any constable shall have power at all reasonable times to inspect and test, for the purpose of ascertaining its fitness, any hackney carriage or private hire vehicle licensed by a district council, or any taximeter affixed to such a vehicle, and if he is not satisfied as to the fitness of the hackney carriage or private hire vehicle or as to the accuracy of its taximeter he may by notice in writing require the proprietor of the hackney carriage or private hire vehicle to make it or its taximeter available for further inspection and testing at such reasonable time and place as may be specified in the notice and suspend the vehicle licence until such time as such authorised officer or constable is so satisfied:

Provided that, if the authorised officer or constable is not so satisfied before the expiration of a period of two months, the said licence shall, by virtue of this section, be deemed to have been revoked and subsections (2) and (3) of section 60 of this Act shall apply with any necessary modifications.

I'd say according to the act they cannot touch the plate for two months.

CC
Author:  grandad [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
captain cab wrote:
The act seems quite specific on this.

58 Return of identification plate or disc on revocation or expiry of licence etc..

(1)On—.

(a)the revocation or expiry of a vehicle licence in relation to a hackney carriage or private hire vehicle; or.

(b)the suspension of a licence under section 68 of this Act;.

a district council may by notice require the proprietor of that hackney carriage or private hire vehicle licensed by them to return to them within seven days after the service on him of that notice the plate or disc which—

(a)in the case of a hackney carriage, is required to be affixed to the carriage as mentioned in section 38 of the Act of 1847; and.

(b)in the case of a private hire vehicle, was issued for the vehicle under section 48(5) of this Act..

(2)If any proprietor fails without reasonable excuse to comply with the terms of a notice under subsection (1) of this section—.

(a)he shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [F1level 3 on the standard scale] and to a daily fine not exceeding ten pounds; and.

(b)any authorised officer of the council or constable shall be entitled to remove and retain the said plate or disc from the said hackney carriage or private hire vehicle..

Annotations:
Amendments (Textual)
F1Words substituted by virtue of Criminal Justice Act 1982 (c. 48, SIF 39:1), ss. 38, 46

Modifications etc. (not altering text)
C1S. 58: functions of local authority not to be responsibility of an executive of the authority (E.) (16.11.2000) by virtue of S.I. 2000/2853, reg. 2(1), Sch. 1 Table B3,5

Section 68 refers to;

68 Fitness of hackney carriages and private hire vehicles..

Any authorised officer of the council in question or any constable shall have power at all reasonable times to inspect and test, for the purpose of ascertaining its fitness, any hackney carriage or private hire vehicle licensed by a district council, or any taximeter affixed to such a vehicle, and if he is not satisfied as to the fitness of the hackney carriage or private hire vehicle or as to the accuracy of its taximeter he may by notice in writing require the proprietor of the hackney carriage or private hire vehicle to make it or its taximeter available for further inspection and testing at such reasonable time and place as may be specified in the notice and suspend the vehicle licence until such time as such authorised officer or constable is so satisfied:

Provided that, if the authorised officer or constable is not so satisfied before the expiration of a period of two months, the said licence shall, by virtue of this section, be deemed to have been revoked and subsections (2) and (3) of section 60 of this Act shall apply with any necessary modifications.

I'd say according to the act they cannot touch the plate for two months.

CC


The bit in red seems to sugest that the license can be suspended until the vehicle has been passed as fit. The last paragraph sugests to me that if the vehicle has not been passed fit within 2 months then the plates shall be deemed to be revoked.
Author:  captain cab [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
grandad wrote:

The bit in red seems to sugest that the license can be suspended until the vehicle has been passed as fit. The last paragraph sugests to me that if the vehicle has not been passed fit within 2 months then the plates shall be deemed to be revoked.


Yes grandad, but the plate is not a license.

CC
Author:  captain cab [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
captain cab wrote:
grandad wrote:

The bit in red seems to sugest that the license can be suspended until the vehicle has been passed as fit. The last paragraph sugests to me that if the vehicle has not been passed fit within 2 months then the plates shall be deemed to be revoked.


Yes grandad, but the plate is not a license.

CC


I apologise, we're actually agreeing :wink:

CC
Author:  grandad [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
captain cab wrote:
grandad wrote:

The bit in red seems to sugest that the license can be suspended until the vehicle has been passed as fit. The last paragraph sugests to me that if the vehicle has not been passed fit within 2 months then the plates shall be deemed to be revoked.


Yes grandad, but the plate is not a license.

CC


So if a license is suspended, doesn't the plate get removed? If not, how can anyone tell that the license has been suspended?
Author:  captain cab [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
grandad wrote:

So if a license is suspended, doesn't the plate get removed? If not, how can anyone tell that the license has been suspended?


I have been asked this question before. I did find out the information which seemed plausable at the time.

Section 58 states a proprietor must return the plate within 7 days of a section 68 notice.

Incidentally, a PHV once upon a time had its plates removed when found illegally plying for hire.

The plates were returned when the council realised, via the ombudsman, that the owner should have been given the right to appeal and he should have been allowed to continue to trade subject to the appeal.

The owner received compensation from the council in question.

Apparently a suspension under section 68 does not accrue a right of appeal until the 2 month period has expired.

And thats from the NALEO book.

CC
Author:  Brummie Cabbie [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
captain cab wrote:
I'd say no, but then I'm awkward. Will check out the legislation after my shift.

CC

Of course the LO can remove the plate from the vehicle, for any legitimate reason, including a vehicle deemed unroadworthy.
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