Taxi Driver Online

UK cab trade debate and advice
It is currently Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:53 pm

All times are UTC - 1 hour [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Bus touts?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:20 pm
Posts: 3272
Night clubs in a nearby city send coaches and minibuses through to our town to collect punters to got to the nightclubs.

This they do by having people stand on the pavement and hand out leaflets to passing pubgoers.

Is this legal - the buses either belong to the nightclubs or coach operators.

What they're doing doen't bother me except for the fact that they plonk their buses in the middle of our 'rank' and often wait there for more than an hour.

Our rank is unofficial, so there's nothing we can do about it, but it's a pain.

Dusty


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:30 pm
Posts: 43919
Location: 1066 Country
Is there anyway your local trade could make the rank official?

As for the touting, well I think it could be, but I would ask your regional traffic commissioner for his/her views.

Perhaps you and your mates should go out one night, get [edited by admin] up, and spew up all over the bus seats. :oops:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 10:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:04 pm
Posts: 725
Location: Essex, England
It sounds very illegal to me.

A Bus is either:

1. operating a "local service" which needs to be registered with the Traffic Commissioners for your area. In this case, the operator must submit a route notification 42 days or so before commencement of the service, and you are entitled to make representations about where it stops and parks direct to the Traffic Commissioners or via your local authority. Or,

2. The bus may operate a "private hire" in which the whole bus must be pre-booked by a single entity. Or,

3. The bus may be operating an "excursion" where the operator pre-sells seats to the public at individual fares, but they must all be pre-booked as with a private hire. Or,

4. The bus may be operating an "Express Service" with "certain" stopping points more than 15 miles apart.

In addition, the use of SMALL buses as Taxis, was also expressly stopped by Section 265 of the Transport Act 2000.

My suggestion, would be to make a representation to your local traffic commissioners (in writing), simultaneously asking if the routes are registered, and get as many of you as you can to sign it, stating that "by established use" you are using the position as a rank, and the buses are obstructing you and causing a hazard.

Oh yes, and, if operated by the nightclubs, what Licences are they running under? As they are hire and reward - several Court rullings on this. Pubs cannot run unlicensed cars to get their punters to and from.

_________________
There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 4:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:20 pm
Posts: 3272
Sussex Man wrote:
Is there anyway your local trade could make the rank official?



No way, there's been a lot of huffing and puffing about it over the past year or two, if anything they'll double yellow it to get rid of us.

But if they give us a new official rank it won't be in such a good location, that's why it's best to let sleeping dogs lie to some extent.

Dusty


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 4:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:20 pm
Posts: 3272
Thanks for the info Andy7, I definitely need a bit of coaching in bus matters.

Geddit??

Dusty :?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:04 pm
Posts: 725
Location: Essex, England
:lol: :lol: :lol: Very good.

_________________
There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: bus touts
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:39 am
Posts: 400
Location: Manchester Airport
not quite correct Andy
The "service" does not need to be registered if it is not open to the public in general ie it is only for the customers of the nightclub in a similar way to free supermarktet buses. There are some other extra bits but very technical. I am in the Coach Industry and I really do wish that all forms of Public Transport would learn to work together.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:43 pm
Posts: 198
Location: manchester
Mr Blue,
We would indeed love to work with you, and then perhaps we could then be able to claim the subsidies that you are entitled to. Our main problem is that we see work that is taxi orientated being taken by any body with out any sanctions being taken, for example buses waiting outside clubs on a Friday/Saturday night just like a taxi. I would ask your opinion on a cab running the route just in front of a bus and picking up from the stops?
If this reply seems defensive I am sorry but if you are serious about common ground stay with the forum and give us your ideas.
Ged
Ps I hope we do not wait 24 hours to get a reply from Tulsa :lol:

_________________
taxi driver @manchester airport


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:30 pm
Posts: 43919
Location: 1066 Country
gedmay wrote:
Ps I hope we do not wait 24 hours to get a reply from Tulsa :lol:


I expect he has heard that many many times, but Ged 10 out of 10. :D :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 2:50 am 
a quote from West Yorkshire Passenger Transport executive prospectus on tendering with love from me to Sussex Andy

" A private hire opperator would need to upgrade to hackney carriage if the contract is won"

at least they know whos on top!

Wharfie


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 8:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:30 pm
Posts: 43919
Location: 1066 Country
More likely they know that you can't charge over the meter, whereas PH can charge what they think the jobs worth.

Thus they are just being cheap skates and going to the lowest common denominator. :D :D :D :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 2:49 pm 
Sussex Man wrote:
More likely they know that you can't charge over the meter, whereas PH can charge what they think the jobs worth.

Thus they are just being cheap skates and going to the lowest common denominator. :D :D :D :D


Good guess but you are wrong! but cannot go into it yet, on this contract the meter is irrelevant.

it did though give me a chuckle, and you was on my mind.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: bus touts
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:04 pm
Posts: 725
Location: Essex, England
Tulsablue wrote:
not quite correct Andy
The "service" does not need to be registered if it is not open to the public in general ie it is only for the customers of the nightclub in a similar way to free supermarktet buses. There are some other extra bits but very technical. I am in the Coach Industry and I really do wish that all forms of Public Transport would learn to work together.


Yes Tulsablue, you are absolutely correct. But then, it would be a Private Hire wouldn't it.

There have been a number of prosecutions for pubs running customers home in their own unlicensed mnibuses. I am not so sure how it stands if the pub were a PSV operator though. Or, the pub hired a PSV. But, if it charges separate fares a'la "excursion" should this not be pre-booked? I would suggest, if not pre-booked, it constitutes a separate fare "local service" consequently needing registration.

As for your comment about working together, do you mean in the same way as, for example, Brian Souter?

I too, wish that we could all work together much more than we do, so I support you on that one. But I too have been in the Bus/Coach Industry since 1969, and have not yet seen many examples of even two bus companies working together.

First Bus are the big operators around here, and they also run the railway, sadly however, in five years, they have not been able to get their Rail Link bus to connect with their own train timetable. And, when the trains fail, they use us and not their own Bus Company.

On the other side of the coin however, we operate a lot of taxi-link sub-feeder services for two large coach operators, and to date, we have worked extremely well together.

Sadly however, while John Prescott was very big on getting transport to integrate better, the only Transport Act we have had from his Government just moved Taxis and Buses further apart due to pressure from some councils. And not without some bitterness from some areas of the trade.

We can all work together, and many do. And I am sure this would all work much better if we started off with a level playing field, and legislation that made sense too.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bus touts?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:37 am 
Dusty Bin wrote:
Night clubs in a nearby city send coaches and minibuses through to our town to collect punters to got to the nightclubs.

This they do by having people stand on the pavement and hand out leaflets to passing pubgoers.

Is this legal - the buses either belong to the nightclubs or coach operators.

What they're doing doen't bother me except for the fact that they plonk their buses in the middle of our 'rank' and often wait there for more than an hour.

Our rank is unofficial, so there's nothing we can do about it, but it's a pain.

Dusty


Dusty, can you remember last year we had the same problem in Mansfield?? It's not illegal as long as the customer isn't paying. These buses will be funded by the nightclubs same as they were in Mansfield. They won't work because people don't want to be told what time to go home.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:17 pm 
Nidge, I do believe it is still illegal, even if the customer isnt paying. There are a few Court cases where it was held that the customer WAS paying, but the payment was indirect (in that the customer paid entry to the nightclub/paid for drinks), and therefore the profit motive existed from that direction. I will try and find some of the cases in question.


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 1 hour [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group