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FIRE ENGINES ?????????????
http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=175		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  Guest [ Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  FIRE ENGINES ?????????????
Well, I've seen it all now !!!!

In Nottingham, at the weekend, there is an (out of commission) fire engine giving people (Sorry....."LADIES ONLY") a free lift to the Works niteclub.

The appliance looks like any other fire engine, but it has a sign on the side saying "FREE FIREMAN'S LIFT TO THE WORKS- LADIES ONLY"

Surely this is illegal !!!!!!!!!!!
Author:  Sussex [ Thu Dec 04, 2003 10:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh yes, as illegal as the one in Lewes and the one in Scotland !!!!!

But to the powers that be, it's so much easier to do flip all. :( :( :(
Author:  Dusty Bin [ Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:19 am ]
Post subject: 
These fire engines seem to be appearing all over the country Mr Guest (well, that takes the total to three now (!), anyone know any more?), we mention one in our current frontpage story about unlicensed vehicles, and also feature another one earlier.

http://www.classecars.co.uk/

http://www.crazyfirecompany.com/

I could see this becoming one of the burning issues in the trade, and think these practices should be extinguished.

Just the kind of topic for a flame war methinks, but I won't pour cold water over any comments on the issue.

Dusty
Author:  Tulsablue [ Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Fire Engines
What is the problem ???? :?: :?

How can eight people wanting something a bit special to celebrate have an effect on the local taxi trade.
:idea: Why not get an antique taxi and offer that for a special occassion.
:idea: Why not a Hansom Cab etc etc

It must be licenced one way or another
Author:  Guest [ Fri Dec 05, 2003 4:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
or a tank :shock: :shock:
Author:  Dusty Bin [ Fri Dec 05, 2003 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fire Engines
Tulsablue wrote:
What is the problem ???? :?: :?


It must be licenced one way or another


The point is that they aren't licensed, Mr Blue??

Yes, you are correct, these vehicles are hardly in direct competition with local taxis, but there are plenty of other unlicensed services that clearly are, and why should they be allowed to be unlicensed?

And there's the public safety aspect, which I'm not an expert on, but why should some LAs ban a Ford Galaxy as a LICENSED cab because of the tinted windows and rear access problems, but a fire engine is not even considered in these respects because the LAs just don't seem to be interested.

And the drivers are presumably unchecked?

Dusty
Author:  Alex [ Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fire Engines
Tulsablue wrote:
What is the problem ???? :?: :?

How can eight people wanting something a bit special to celebrate have an effect on the local taxi trade.
:idea: Why not get an antique taxi and offer that for a special occassion.
:idea: Why not a Hansom Cab etc etc

It must be licenced one way or another


I very doubt it is licensed, in the case of the Lewes one, it most certainly is not.

But then why should I be licensed?

My one car is not a threat to the local trade, it would just be a threat to local consumers.

But I tell you why it is a problem, it's because when there is an accident, there is no way an insurance company (if it's insured in the first place) will pay out.

Alex
Author:  Tulsablue [ Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  fire engine
sorry guys :o
I did not explain myself properly :? :oops:

If there is any area that wont licence a Galaxy and on exactly what grounds then DO something about it,
Have you contacted Ford, I should think they may be interested, what about your local Chamber of Comm, complian about the right things in the right place and you may get somewhere. Have you put it in writing and sent it recorded then move on to Dept of Transport etc. Yes one person complaining in the right place can make a difference and then use this type of forum to get additional evidence. Dont waste your time on licence issues that you cannot gain anything from.

I'm waiting for suggestions not just we can't :cry:
Author:  Dusty Bin [ Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
The point was not the Galaxy per se, but that if some LAs can disqualify it from being licensed, then why should fire engines be allowed to operate in other areas without licensing?

But the Galaxy is an interesting example of the disparate standards used by the several hundred LAs in the country, and the same applies to every facet of taxi/PH licensing.

Which is why I think there should be national standards, and I had hoped the OFT would address such issues, but instead all we got was something about 'proportionate standards' which doesn't really add much to the sum of human knowledge, and also the usual cack about local policies for local needs or suchlike.

Plus ca change. Again.

Dusty
Author:  Tulsablue [ Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  fire engines
That is exactly what I mean Dusty :D

Just because you have problems with different LA's why have a go at the fire engine. It presumably is taxed?? if it is, it needs an mot and because of its size/weight would have to tested at an HGVTS, why not ask them how it is licenced and would need to be insured (although could be with a fleet policy).
One thing I think you can check out is how many vehicles do they operate, are they registered for VAT are they payinf PAYE for drivers etc.
These are the things you can check and can do something about.
Please do not have a go at someone just for having a good idea but DO have a go if they are illegal (not just in one opinion but really illegal).
I agree with you National Standards but even that does not cover everything, our coaches are tested at one station but another has different standards and priorities.
Author:  Dusty Bin [ Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
I still don't get your point Mr Blue - where do you get the idea that anyone is having a go at a fire engine for being a good idea?

If they are not operating illegally then that's fine, but even if they were fully legal then surely we are allowed to express an opinion on the fact that this 'good idea' involves unchecked drivers and vehicles and operators that haven't been subject to the same sort of checks that for hire vehicles are normally subject to, such as confirmation that they're adequately insured?

As for the actual legality of the thing, we e-mailed Lewes Council when we featured the first fire engine for their opinion, but reply there came none.

Incidentally, a senior NATPHLEO official expressed an interest in the story.

Dusty
Author:  Tulsablue [ Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  fire engine
Ok Dusty
I might not be good at getting my point over but :oops:

HC drivers slag off PH drivers :? , why they are doing the same job , pointless, the first message on this section has a go at a fire engine, how much business have HC or PH lost because of it??? :?:

Can't licence a Galaxy, is this fact or fiction :? that just gets embellished.
Let's get facts then we can all write to DoT, MP's etc till they get fed up but we must deal with actual events not heresay.

Taxi's should have first priority to do what they are good at, without worrying about other forms of transport that have no connection or effect on their business .
What is 99% of your business :?:


This is what the forum should be about, meaningful discussion
sorry got to do some work now but will check up tuesday.
Over to you guys, lets have some thoughts on how we can make now private car use Interesting, Safe, Reliable and if it does not offend some of the certain political groups Profitable
Author:  Sussex [ Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't think the point of issue is solely the fact that it's a fire-engine. The point is that it is an un-licensed vehicle, being driven by an un-licensed (non PH/HC) driver.

If I was to see any non-licensed vehicle pick up, then I would report it.

I agree that the fire-engine is hardly likely to effect the pound in my pocket, but if they can get away with it, where will it end?

As for insurance, well I know how much I pay for hire and reward insurance, and like the rest of us, it's bloody fortunes.

There is simply no way that fire-engines can have the proper insurance, yet alone the proper licenses to pick up legally, to make it pay.
Author:  volvoman [ Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:38 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree whole-heartedly with Sussex Man. These dubious operations are mushrooming, particularly where the party atmosphere appears to be the rule rather than the exception,( take Newcastle-Gateshead for instance). There are huge numbers of "revellers" wandering between both sides of the River Tyne. All of these people need to get there in the first place and to get home again. I am in no doubt that all licensed PH and HC are proud to provide such a service whilst making a living doing so. What is particularly disturbing is the proliferation of stretch limos and more recently redundant fire engines roaming the area, apparently un-licensed. They may have road tax, MOT, insurance, but will the drivers be CRB checked? Answer: No, because they are not licensed.
A couple of years ago up here all licensed HC and PH received a letter from Northumbria Police asking us to be particularly vigilant and helpful towards females, especially if they were waiting alone etc. No problem with that.
One outfit up this way is promoting its fire engine as coming with free "bubbly" and "two hunky fire fighters". I think the implications here are questionable and would not wish any female to get into any unlicensed vehicle. See www.thepartyengine.com
Author:  Alex [ Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:00 am ]
Post subject: 
I have been reliably informed that the new drinking licensing laws will make it illegal to serve booze in these bloody things, and the stretch limos.

Alex
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