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New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
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Author:  mileage [ Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
Hi all

I'm joining a cab company shortly and they've said that they'll start me off next week and then help me apply for my PH licence in 2-3 weeks time. They said I could still do some things on an 'o licence'. In fairness they said there were some things I couldn't do and some that I could but it wouldn't be a problem.

I've got home and rang the council. The licence officer wasn't there but one of the admin staff said they knew of the company using this tactic but didn't know if it was legal or not and couldn't advise me any further. I rang another council who said their licence officer was also out and couldn't help but ring VOSA. Rang VOSA.. useless call centre. Rang another council miles away that briefly mentions something about it on their website (google turfed them up) and they said it was all totally grey area and the transport commission didn't even understand it clearly..

Rang one more council who also said they were aware of it but didn't really know much about it themselves either other than it wasn't quite morally right in their view but they didn't know what action they would take if any.

So.. I won't be a licenced PH driver but this company seem to think that i can still do some bits for them. Whats the real score here? I don't want to get hauled into the Magistrates court and busted for trying to get myself into employment!

Many thanks

mileage
Author:  bloodnock [ Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
Well...you can drive a TAXI or a PH on a Taxi License, You can Only Drive a PH on a PH license, But I wouldn't have thought you could drive either on an "O" license as that's for PCV's and HGV's
Author:  skippy41 [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
The work they want you to do would be driving a mini bus with more than 8 seats, quite legal as long as they are insured, thats if you have a pcv
Author:  grandad [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
If the company have a VOSA operators license or a restricted operators license than there is a legal loophole. Basically if they have a restricted operators licence it allows the use of 2 vehicles. Usually these vehicles are 9-16 seat vehicles but that is not neccesarily the case and smaller vehicles can be used. However only pre booked work can be done and there are some conditions that have to be met regarding seperate fares for the passengers. If the company runs large busses on a full VOSA operators licence then they can run a small number of vehicles with 8 or less seats without any further licensing. The small number of vehicles is not defined but is usually around 10% of the fleet. Of course if you are going to drive a vehicle with 9 or more seats you will need a full minibus license but for 8 or less seats you don't need any other licence than your driviong licence and you don't need a CRB check either.
Author:  bloodnock [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
grandad wrote:
If the company have a VOSA operators license or a restricted operators license than there is a legal loophole. Basically if they have a restricted operators licence it allows the use of 2 vehicles. Usually these vehicles are 9-16 seat vehicles but that is not neccesarily the case and smaller vehicles can be used. However only pre booked work can be done and there are some conditions that have to be met regarding seperate fares for the passengers. If the company runs large busses on a full VOSA operators licence then they can run a small number of vehicles with 8 or less seats without any further licensing. The small number of vehicles is not defined but is usually around 10% of the fleet. Of course if you are going to drive a vehicle with 9 or more seats you will need a full minibus license but for 8 or less seats you don't need any other licence than your driviong licence and you don't need a CRB check either.


That Being 9 or More Passenger seats...Minibus Licence
Author:  mileage [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
grandad wrote:
If the company have a VOSA operators license or a restricted operators license than there is a legal loophole. Basically if they have a restricted operators licence it allows the use of 2 vehicles. Usually these vehicles are 9-16 seat vehicles but that is not neccesarily the case and smaller vehicles can be used. However only pre booked work can be done and there are some conditions that have to be met regarding seperate fares for the passengers. If the company runs large busses on a full VOSA operators licence then they can run a small number of vehicles with 8 or less seats without any further licensing. The small number of vehicles is not defined but is usually around 10% of the fleet. Of course if you are going to drive a vehicle with 9 or more seats you will need a full minibus license but for 8 or less seats you don't need any other licence than your driviong licence and you don't need a CRB check either.


Hi all

See this is whats troubling me. I dont have a PCV / minibus licence just a normal car licence. One authority did say something about they're supposed to follow bus routes and also that the passengers are supposed to pay a seperate fare each so from my POV this looks really dodgy yet the management at the company seem like good decent people - the sort I've never had the chance to work with before (my previous bosses have been awful).

I also have some other things to take into account such as being self employed (and if I'm restricted as to what I can do then thats gonna make life hard) and the licence / medical costs etc. In short I'm really unsure if this is a good idea.

Anyone care to comment on the money side of things? Am I going to regret forking out the money or am I going to earn decent money? - I know thats like "How long is a piece of string" but I figured some of you might be able to give me some feedback on what you think of the industry.
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
bloodnock wrote:
grandad wrote:
If the company have a VOSA operators license or a restricted operators license than there is a legal loophole. Basically if they have a restricted operators licence it allows the use of 2 vehicles. Usually these vehicles are 9-16 seat vehicles but that is not neccesarily the case and smaller vehicles can be used. However only pre booked work can be done and there are some conditions that have to be met regarding seperate fares for the passengers. If the company runs large busses on a full VOSA operators licence then they can run a small number of vehicles with 8 or less seats without any further licensing. The small number of vehicles is not defined but is usually around 10% of the fleet. Of course if you are going to drive a vehicle with 9 or more seats you will need a full minibus license but for 8 or less seats you don't need any other licence than your driviong licence and you don't need a CRB check either.


That Being 9 or More Passenger seats...Minibus Licence


D1 but not 101 restricted.......take a test
Author:  grandad [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
wannabeeahack wrote:
bloodnock wrote:
grandad wrote:
If the company have a VOSA operators license or a restricted operators license than there is a legal loophole. Basically if they have a restricted operators licence it allows the use of 2 vehicles. Usually these vehicles are 9-16 seat vehicles but that is not neccesarily the case and smaller vehicles can be used. However only pre booked work can be done and there are some conditions that have to be met regarding seperate fares for the passengers. If the company runs large busses on a full VOSA operators licence then they can run a small number of vehicles with 8 or less seats without any further licensing. The small number of vehicles is not defined but is usually around 10% of the fleet. Of course if you are going to drive a vehicle with 9 or more seats you will need a full minibus license but for 8 or less seats you don't need any other licence than your driviong licence and you don't need a CRB check either.


That Being 9 or More Passenger seats...Minibus Licence


D1 but not 101 restricted.......take a test

He could be in a saloon car with 4 passenger seats or an MPV with 6 or 8 passenger seats. No minibus license required for these.
Author:  Sussex [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
mileage wrote:
See this is whats troubling me. I dont have a PCV / minibus licence just a normal car licence.

It's all a mess, and one that the Law Commission hopefully will sort out.

I would tread very carefully. As has been mentioned you don't need anything more than a normal DVLA license if you drive a vehicle that seats less than 9 punters.

However you must charge each customer separate fares. Which might sound easy enough but it isn't.

If a punter books a 4 seater saloon to go from A to B, the firm must quote per punter. So if the job is £20 each punter pays £5 each, easy enough. But if only 2 punters travel you can only charge £10 for the job, only 1 and it's a £5 job.

To sum up, your future employer is a scumbag of the highest order and you should look elsewhere for employment.
Author:  skippy41 [ Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
It could well be a taxi bus on a set rout, licence issued by the traffic commissioner, you only need a car licence for that, and separate fares can be charged
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
Grandad, he said he had been told he could drive on an o-licence neaning a PSV/Minibus, ergo a D1 licence would be needed, ive got one but its "101 no payment, volunteer only"

I find it amusing a council has ni idea what its means....

mileage wrote:
Hi all

I'm joining a cab company shortly and they've said that they'll start me off next week and then help me apply for my PH licence in 2-3 weeks time. They said I could still do some things on an 'o licence'. In fairness they said there were some things I couldn't do and some that I could but it wouldn't be a problem.

I've got home and rang the council. The licence officer wasn't there but one of the admin staff said they knew of the company using this tactic but didn't know if it was legal or not and couldn't advise me any further.


The only thing he can do for the firm would be vehicle movements (not for hire) of the PSV vehicles, he probably CANT move any PH or HC cos, as we know, a driver needs a badge.......
Author:  thedespatcher [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
This is indeed a 'loop-hole' within the transport act.

You can operate under section 265 of the transport act in a vehicle that makes up a 'small part thereof' of a 'big bus' company. Whats a small part? whats a big bus? cloudy eh...

Anyhow, it is completely legal and i have sat in a meeting where a VOSA officer has had to explain to a council that this can be done and that the vehicle can operate seperate fares.

All you need to be mindful of is that providing the company operate the vehicle as part of their PSV fleet, you are legal. By this i mean, you should complete a walkround check of the vehicle, have the operators license clearly displayed, and have the company obligs on the side with their operations address and passenger capacity.

When the transport act was written, it left this section 'open to interpritation' and forms a valid training system for Taxi / Private Hire operators to use. It is also worth bearing in mind that whilst your local council wont like the use of this, there is nothing they can do and have no rights over stopping this vehicle. Same applies for the police and i would suggest that you carried a laminated information sheet with tyhe relevant sections of the tranport act clearly printed on it to avoid an issue (the company providing you the chance should know this).
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
Which is why the Law Commission is proposing all under 9 seaters are brought under the taxi/PH banner.

And about time too.
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
the loophole is to OPERATE a D1 class vehicle, but to DRIVE one for H&R a full D1 licence is required surely?

if i have a (full) D1 licence i could (in theory....somehow) operate a D1 class vehicle without an O licence (or CPC), thats the loophole
Author:  captain cab [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New cabbie - O Licence?!?!?!
Sussex wrote:
Which is why the Law Commission is proposing all under 9 seaters are brought under the taxi/PH banner.

And about time too.



the loophole was recently re-enforced and allowed bus companies to use totally unlicensed vehicles :sad:
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