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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:20 pm 
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One of my drivers has just told me that according to the local rag our fees are due to rise. The drivers badge is going up by 25%. :shock:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:15 pm 
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I have now read the public notice and all fees are increasing by 25%. So that is the drivers badge the operators license and the vehicle plates are all increasing by 25%. Last year we got a tariff increase of 24.5 pence per journey.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:29 pm 
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grandad wrote:
I have now read the public notice and all fees are increasing by 25%. So that is the drivers badge the operators license and the vehicle plates are all increasing by 25%. Last year we got a tariff increase of 24.5 pence per journey.

Object to the badge increase when advertised. They can only charge for the processing costs, and product costs.

For vehicles you will need to object via the district auditor, so you need to start by putting in FoI requests about the last few years budgets and expenditure.

If you need any help a couple of us did likewise a few years back, so I should have the questions we asked somewhere.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:42 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
I have now read the public notice and all fees are increasing by 25%. So that is the drivers badge the operators license and the vehicle plates are all increasing by 25%. Last year we got a tariff increase of 24.5 pence per journey.

Object to the badge increase when advertised. They can only charge for the processing costs, and product costs.

For vehicles you will need to object via the district auditor, so you need to start by putting in FoI requests about the last few years budgets and expenditure.

If you need any help a couple of us did likewise a few years back, so I should have the questions we asked somewhere.

I think I still have the list of FOI requests from last year and the year before. I can't find the actuall wording in the act that states the bit about processing costs and product costs.
Mind you the notice in the paper states that the increases are published under the LGMPA 1976 section 70. I may have to object to the drivers badge increase on the grounds that this is not covered by section 70. it is section 53. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:10 pm 
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grandad wrote:
I think I still have the list of FOI requests from last year and the year before. I can't find the actuall wording in the act that states the bit about processing costs and product costs.
Mind you the notice in the paper states that the increases are published under the LGMPA 1976 section 70. I may have to object to the drivers badge increase on the grounds that this is not covered by section 70. it is section 53. :wink:

Manchester-v-King is the lead case that councils can only charge processing costs for licenses. Even though it dealt with street trading.

In relation to vehicles the Guildford District Auditor decision is still one most councils ignore. The view there was that councils can't charge enforcement costs even for vehicle licenses.

All that said, come the new Act fees will be set nationally and will reflect the costs of processing. Any enforcement costs will come out of poll tax money, and maybe fixed penalty fines. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:53 pm 
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grandad wrote:
One of my drivers has just told me that according to the local rag our fees are due to rise. The drivers badge is going up by 25%. :shock:


what will a badge then cost?

ours are £90/1 year or £225/3 years

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:58 pm 
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grandad wrote:
I have now read the public notice and all fees are increasing by 25%. So that is the drivers badge the operators license and the vehicle plates are all increasing by 25%. Last year we got a tariff increase of 24.5 pence per journey.

I'm intrigued by how you are supposed to charge the half pence's - that aside, what is the resultant fees structure?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 – S70
Fees for Hackney Carriages and Private Hire Vehicles.

Dear Sir,

We wish to OBJECT to the revised scale of fees and charges advertised recently.

Our ground for objection is that the fees to be charged by the Council are excessive and unreasonable in the context of the Act

We will be submitting a more detailed statement of the grounds for our objection shortly.

In the meantime I would be grateful if you could acknowledge receipt of this letter and advise the date of the Council meeting which will consider the Objection and what right of attendance and speaking rights will be available to us.


Yours faithfully,
Grandad


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:00 pm 
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Fees charged must be reasonable and no more than sufficient in the aggregate, in respect of S70, to cover the Council’s costs in whole or in part.

It has been established in a number of cases before the courts that a Council may not derive a profit or surplus from such licensing activity.

While the question of what is ‘reasonable’ can only be resolved by challenge, it seems clear that ‘costs’ charged to accounts to be recovered by licence fee income must be commensurate with the actual and necessary expenditure of human and material resources.

It follows that the Council must be able to demonstrate that those costs charged directly or by apportionment can be identified as being relevant and proportionate

Although a council has a statutory power to levy a fee this does not give it an absolutely free hand in relation to the scale of the fee that is levied.the impact of any increase upon the livelihood of those affected has to be taken into account,as does the scale of the increase.CONSULTATION must take place with interested parties,whether this is a statutory requirement or not, and results of that consultation must be considered by the council before the decision is made.it is important that any consultation is done fairly and the results considered properly by the council.ANY suggestion that the cosultation is a sham would be grounds for an application for leave to seek a judicial review of the final decision.
the judge in kelly v liverpool said although s53 contains no requirement for consultation, a local authority would be ill-advised not to embark upon some element of consultation with those persons who would be affected by an increase in fees (eg the drivers of BOTH hackney carriages and private hire vehicles).
Remember you only have28 days to object from the date on which the notice is first published.


I would also put in an enquiry under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.asking for a copy of any report submitted by Licensing officers to the Head of Function or any Council body to request authority to implement the most recently revised scale of fees.Also ask them to provide a copy of the financial estimates for the operation of the Taxi Licensing function.Also ask them to provide details of the number of vehicle licences, driver licences and operator licences the Council envisages issuing in the current year.Also ask them to provide a copy of the Subjective Cost Centre(s) Budget(s) for taxi licensing activity showing the estimated costs and income for that year against each relevant nominal ledger code. Also ask them to supply a copy of the year to date outturn to the last available accounting period and any forecast outturn for the current financial year. that should keep them busy, always remember they are not allowed to make a profit so you have a right to see where your cash is going

I would also be interested to have details of any ‘best value’ comparison the council has carried out in respect of its licensing functions and how it compares with the authorities it may have used as a ‘benchmark’

By virtue of the Local Government Act 1999 the authority is required to carry out such comparison


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:12 pm 
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You can amend dates ect to suit? And you might want to split the request in have? Half in your name the other half in someone else's name? So they don't try to charge you for the info. There's a limit on the freedom of information?


Licensing of Hackney Carriages and Private Hire Vehicles, their drivers and Operators.

Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976.
Section 70 - Fees and Charges.


Enquiry submitted under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

Information requested from the Council to allow Grandad to consider the current scale of fees and charges by reference to the costs chargeable by the Council to the Cost Centre(s) covering the licensing of Taxis.

I ask the Council to provide the following information at the earliest opportunity:-


a) Please provide a copy of any report submitted by Licensing officers to the Head of Function or any Council body to request authority to implement the most recently revised scale of fees.

b) Please provide a copy of the financial estimates for the operation of the Taxi Licensing function for 2012/13

c) Please provide details of the number of vehicle licenses, driver licenses and operator licenses the Council envisages issuing in the current year.

d) Please provide a copy of the Job description of each member of staff wholly or partly employed in the carrying out of the vehicle, driver and operator licensing function. For staff not wholly employed on such activity please advise the percentage of time charged to the taxi and non-taxi activity in their job descriptions.

e) Please advise details of the staff and management structure in respect of taxi licensing.

f) Please advise details of staff costs charged directly to the licensing account
NB. I only request details of the posts and the aggregated total annual forecast cost including all Employer’s on-costs.

g) Please provide a copy of the Subjective Cost Centre(s) Budget(s) for taxi licensing activity showing the estimated costs and income for 2011/12 against each relevant nominal ledger code. Please also supply a copy of the year to date outturn to the last available accounting period and any forecast outturn for the current financial year.

h) Please provide details of how recovery of corporate overhead and any other indirect or apportioned charges are calculated for the Taxi Licensing Subjective cost centre(s).

i) Please advise, under the Council’s Constitution and scheme of delegation, which
Cabinet member(s) and Officers have responsibility for the determination of the
Council’s policies and practice in respect of any matters relating to its powers
under the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 and The Local Government


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Another example of why PH/HC matters should be taken out of the hands of tiny minded LA's and handed to VOSA

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:25 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
Another example of why PH/HC matters should be taken out of the hands of tiny minded LA's and handed to VOSA



who are equally clueless

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:45 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
Another example of why PH/HC matters should be taken out of the hands of tiny minded LA's and handed to VOSA

who are equally clueless

I don't know so much.

Quite how or why driver's license fees are different anywhere in the country I struggle with.

Vehicle license fees do have some sort of reasoning behind differing rates, but even those reasons (whatever they are) would struggle to stand up to proper scrutiny.

Councils should fund enforcement costs via the poll tax money, although I think post new taxi act those costs might come via penalty tickets.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:31 am 
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Sussex wrote:
although I think post new taxi act those costs might come via penalty tickets.


aint gonna work if you're all angels like me :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:34 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Sussex wrote:
although I think post new taxi act those costs might come via penalty tickets.


aint gonna work if you're all angels like me :shock:

They'll be handing out tickets like confetti. Kerrrrching!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:44 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
They'll be handing out tickets like confetti. Kerrrrching!!!


correct - like their wages relied on it :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:50 pm 
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I have received an email today regarding the charges for credit/debit cards from a chap in the licensing department. He was saying that such charges may be discussed during the next fare review in April/May. The email mentioned that we may be awarded a fare rise in line with the RPI at that time. So it seems that we can have the RPI but the council are increasing their fees by 25%. It would also seem that there is not going to be any consultation on this increase either.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:52 pm 
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grandad wrote:
I have received an email today regarding the charges for credit/debit cards from a chap in the licensing department. He was saying that such charges may be discussed during the next fare review in April/May. The email mentioned that we may be awarded a fare rise in line with the RPI at that time. So it seems that we can have the RPI but the council are increasing their fees by 25%. It would also seem that there is not going to be any consultation on this increase either.



Seems to me someone needs the sack - if the 25% increase is all worked out and justified by their figures - it surely means last years and the years before were very wrong indeed!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:06 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
grandad wrote:
I have received an email today regarding the charges for credit/debit cards from a chap in the licensing department. He was saying that such charges may be discussed during the next fare review in April/May. The email mentioned that we may be awarded a fare rise in line with the RPI at that time. So it seems that we can have the RPI but the council are increasing their fees by 25%. It would also seem that there is not going to be any consultation on this increase either.



Seems to me someone needs the sack - if the 25% increase is all worked out and justified by their figures - it surely means last years and the years before were very wrong indeed!

I think some drivers need to, as TT would say, get organised. I have sugested that maybe membership of the NTA would be a good move. One of the drivers is already a member. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:17 pm 
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grandad wrote:
One of the drivers is already a member. :wink:


one born every minute :lol:

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