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Does anyone have, or know of anyone who has an operators licence issued by an authority in whose area the applicant does NOT have a base?

I live in Sedgemoor District Council Area, and intend to operate a private hire business from home.

As I am already a licensed driver in my neighbouring area of North Somerset I have asked this authority to grant me an operators licence.
They seem reluctant despite the fact that the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 clearly provides for an operators address to be "....within the area of the authority or not" s57 (2) b ii

Confused? Dont be!!!

In essence my understanding of the law is that as long as an operators licence has been granted it does not matter by whom, provided that the drivers and vehicles are also licensed by the same authority.

I dont want to undergo further inconvenience, Unnecessary cost and delay by applying to the authority in which I live. This is also because
I intend to do most of my work in North Somerset, the border of this area is less than 3 miles from my intended "base" ie home.
If granted I would obviously have my vehicles licensed by North Somerset and therefore have all 3 licences under one roof (Operators;drivers;vehicles)

I have been an operator before (clean record) and it has not been suggested that I am not a fit and proper person...............So ???

I dont want to have a fight with a local authority but dont want to back down on a mtter of principle,

has anyone got any advice which may strengthen my case or otherwise please

simonhartley2003@yahoo.co.uk 01934 742111 Thank You[/u]

Sorry Simon. From what I know of the trade you can only get a Private Hire Operators Licence in the area that your base is located.

I am sure others would support this.

There is a long history of cross border hiring case law.

The laws are outdated for sure, but we can't do anything about that.

Looking at the OFT report, Tom seems to be spot on Simon.

Annexe B to the report states:

"...a PHV, its driver and its operator must be
licensed by the same local authority. As long as this condition is
met, and the operator operates from an office within the licensing
area, the PHV firm can advertise and supply private hire services
anywhere in the country. The driver and vehicle do not have to
restrict their services to the area where they are licensed."

A footnote to that says:

"We have heard, for example, of a PHV firm whose operator, drivers and vehicles are licensed in Luton, but which advertises and provides private hire services in Southampton."

Your understanding of the law quoted at the top seems to be correct, but the additional point is that your base must be in the relevant licensing area.

Dusty

Toms right
a local authority has no jurisdiction in the authority next door,

now Simon, my advice is drop it

i think reading what you put dusty in annexe b is that Simon can legally license himself for his own area, and do work from his own area plus anywhere else in the country. I mean we can all do that but it must depend on what percentage of work he's doing out of area!

Secondly Simon why cant you just get an operators base in your licensing area where you want to work, there is staffing costs granted plus your rates rent leccy etc but if your going to do it go the whole hog mate, it will be worth it in the long run...

This issue is one of the grey-est in the HC/PH trade.

It doesn't say anywhere in the statutes that you must reside in an area that you are licensed as an operator, but it's fair to say that a council can't really enforce outside of it's manor.

Where some have got round it, is in having a phone in an area (possibly a free-phone) and saying on the operator's application form, that's you base.

This was used by a B&H operator to get around the laws, cos he had two districts vehicles on the same firm, run from the same office.

Confused yet?

But the basic law is that the three licenses must all be from the same council, no matter where you work from. So you could do a Plymouth to Plymouth job, if you wish, despite the fact that your license area is hundreds of miles away.

Now if you really wanted to stir the pot, you could say your office is in Scotland, then you (at the moment) wouldn't need an operator's license.

In the 1976 Act it exempted Scottish cars from needing one to work in England, and I believe the 1982 Act exempts English cars from needing one to work in Scotland.

In fact the largest taxi firm in the UK with thousands of cars, Com-cab in London, has it's call center in Scotland.

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IDFIMH

Alex

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I do remember I used to work for my brother in an unlicensed area, and Burnley council went mic prov, Burnley adjoined our unlicensed area, so if you used an unlicensed vehicle in Burnley you were in bother.

we licensed 2 cars with Burnley council to pick up in that area, though the drivers were not licensed nor was the office.

it went smooth though this was right at the beggining, before case law took affect.

now things are different.

Yorkie

So what consitutes an operating base then?

My firm's (one) base (so far) is right on the edge of the PCO licensing area. Half a mile down the road we have the borough of Epsom & Ewell and a mile up the road the other way, we have the borough of Elmbridge.

What if I were to put a shop in Epsom then? Would I need to license as an operator in Epsom too? And what do I do about my PCO licensed drivers and cars whom the PCO will not allow to be licensed by any other authority?

Big problem for those of us on the borders!

One thought for Simon's predicament is the issue of planning permission... we in London certainly have to have permission to be a cab operating base - neighbours get rather peeved with cars starting their engines at all hours of the day and night, and often object to the parking difficulties that a cab base can generate. The PCO - peace and goodwill be upon their forehead - do insist as part of their operator licensing criteria on a letter from the local council granting permission or certifying that permission is not required for each operating base.

H

as a border firm ourselves we dont see it as a big issue though there are problems, borders are lines on a map, as cars have wheels they can be driven over.

we are HC when we applied for permission we were told not to park around the office then one day the liners came putting double yellows everywhere, we were to say the least concerned until the white came out painting a 4 car rank right outside the office.

funny though that we were not consulted who was? the taxi drivers in the next zone.

If you have the office in the another district, and customers phone there, then the vehicles and drivers must be licensed in that district.

You could have the phone calls sent to you, and then send them on, but that is a very grey area which I thought would be OK, until I read recently that Mr James Button viewed that as outside the law.

Cross-border hiring is a big problem, to me it was one of the main issues that led to the OFT report.

Alas they really didn't look into it, perhaps because they saw the mess.

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IDFIMH

While it is clear that a Hackney cannot take a flag outside its area, can a Hackney, operating a private hire job taken over the phone, pick-up and drop that job out of its area?

My reason for asking, is that we have several Tourneos licensed as Hackney's and some as PH, and we often do contract work for the Railway, that takes our buses well out of area.

While the railway companies hire starts in our area (we charge a call-out fee), as the buses leave our base, they may be transporting passengers miles away from home and not return into our base area at all all day.

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There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.

Andy.
yes they can and do, take a look when you go to the airport, last week at manchester term 1 I counted taxis from 15 areas


we regularly pick up at local stations other than the 2 in our zones

Good. Well that's OK then. Thanks Yorkie.

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There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.

Fascinating subject. That appears quite clear until you actually go into it.

Someone mentioned you could do a Plymouth to Plymouth job when licensed in Luton. Well I think you could do an Exeter to Exeter job but not Plymouth to Plymouth because Plymouth is unique and has its own Act of Parliament. So you can't quote Plymouth in relation to Misc Prov.

For the guy on the Borders of Epsom etc. You would only be allowed to give work from your Epsom office to Epsom licensed PH vehicles. But you could give it to a hackney licenced in the area the job was being done.

A guy in Newcastle spent a fortune fighting the cross border issues and lost. I think the fact remains that reality has moved on way beyond what anyone could dream that communication systems could be when the laws were written and the interpretation evolved in case law is protectionist.

Quite where we will be when we have nationwide circuits and cars moving about all over the country I don't know.

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