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Police stop
http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24568		 Page 1 of 8
Author:  mickj0 [ Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Police stop
Friday i had to leave my licensed private hire car in the garage
Saturday i was driving my dad's car which is not licensed as we only use it for sdp
In the course of the day i relalised that 2 of our customers were going to be left at gatwick as i could not pick them up due to my car being off the road so i told my boss that i would go down in my dad's car which is only insured for personal use but i would not charge the 2 people and i would do it as a favour to them
So i collected them and was driving back when i got stopped by the police i td them i was a private hire driver but in my own car they told me that i had come down with the view of charging them for the trip
The customers were told i was not insured so they said well if he doesn't charge us he can take us home
Anyway i was charged with no insurance but they let me drive off and take the 2 customers home still no money has chafed hands
Where do i stand because despite what they think whether i was there to earn money and none ever changed hands for this trip how can i be reported for no insurance
Author:  bloodnock [ Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Police stop
They were customers, you collected them, you were driving them in an unlicensed Vehicle, uninsured vehicle and you work as a Private Hire Driver..let's be honest, it's not looking good, more so because you couldn't prove your intentions. :roll:


Quote:
can i be reported for no insurance
..errr, yes.
Author:  mickj0 [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Police stop
I was on the understanding if i am not displaying a badge or driving a private hire vehicle i can pick the 2 people up as long as i don't charge them it can't be classed as a fare which then means i am insured if i had known all this was gonna happen
I wouldn't have gone
Author:  grandad [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Police stop
mickj0 wrote:
i told my boss that i would go down in my dad's car which is only insured for personal use but i would not charge the 2 people and i would do it as a favour to them

Whose job was it? You say you told your boss. Does that mean that your boss was not going to get his cut out of the job? did your boss not have another driver that he could send? Did your boss ring the police?
Author:  roythebus [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Police stop
There was a case a few years back, I can't remember the name of the case, but may have been in St.Albans where someone did exactly that. Not only did the lady get done for no insurance, but ISTR lost her ph licence as well. It was found that even though no charge was made for the trip, it was still done in the course of her business as a ph operator. the consequences were very expensive for her.

just found the link here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19943&p=249996&hilit=st.albans#p249996 post no.2. The case of St.Albans -v- Taylor (1991). Sorry but you're nicked!
Author:  mickj0 [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Police stop
I decided to shoot down to pick the customers up otherwise they would have been left there my boss did not ring the police and my boss did not receive any profit what so ever all i was thinking was getting these people after the police stopped me they said i was lucky they were not going to take my vehicle and if i wanted to take them for free as a favour to them then i could and they let me go so i don't understand if they are doing me for no insurance why did they let me continue with the people on board and one of the officers said if you don't charge them and do it as a favour you can take them home
Author:  grandad [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Police stop
So, what you are saying is that of all the cars on the road coming from Gatwick, yours was picked at random to be stopped? How did the subject of them not being paying customers arise? Just out of interest, how far was this journey? How often do you do jobs to Gatwick?
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Police stop
mickj0 wrote:
I decided to shoot down to pick the customers up otherwise they would have been left there my boss did not ring the police and my boss did not receive any profit what so ever all i was thinking was getting these people after the police stopped me they said i was lucky they were not going to take my vehicle and if i wanted to take them for free as a favour to them then i could and they let me go so i don't understand if they are doing me for no insurance why did they let me continue with the people on board and one of the officers said if you don't charge them and do it as a favour you can take them home


Why didnt you get your boss (a PH operator) to pass the job on or use one of the other LEGAL means to cover the job?
Author:  bloodnock [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Police stop
Does seem rather odd the they singled you out for a stop check, quite a rare event indeed. do you not think it's possible that you were shopped by someone.

I also wonder how often this happens and goes unnoticed whether through good will as you say or through a deliberate act of Illicit PH'ing by others, the point is whether or not it was done with good intentions or not the old " I was not going to charge them a fare" is an excuse after the event that will be rolled out by the Honest and Dishonest alike as a wriggle out.

Does not say much for your boss though who was quite happy for you to take such a risk just to appease his customers, he could have contacted them to explain why his vehicle was off the road and unable to collect them (Sh*t happens), he then could either have booked them a vehicle from another operator or simply have requested them politely to organise a Taxi themselves from the airport due his Extraordinary circumstances.

Look's like you have become the sacrificial Goat MickJo.
Author:  c4bby [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Police stop
The difficulty is they will see it this way:
1. You are a licensed PH driver
2. They were your customers who you'd dropped of on the journey down as fare paying bods and would have been on the way back if your cab wasn't off the road.
3. Even if you get a statement from the customers to say you didn't charge it won't hold water as per point noted above.
4. If they were to allow this then what's to stop anyone with a car doing taxi/ph jobs in their own private car with no licence and claim they're doing it as a favour ( it happens anyway where unlicensed drivers ferry people abt charging less than the going rate fare)

Not looking good buddy
Author:  DocG [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Police stop
The fact that no money changed hands is irrelevant, I think.

The law will say that a "pecuniary advantage" took place.

So you need to be properly licensed.

Simples.
Author:  Sussex [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Police stop
mickj0 wrote:
Friday i had to leave my licensed private hire car in the garage
Saturday i was driving my dad's car which is not licensed as we only use it for sdp
In the course of the day i relalised that 2 of our customers were going to be left at gatwick as i could not pick them up due to my car being off the road so i told my boss that i would go down in my dad's car which is only insured for personal use but i would not charge the 2 people and i would do it as a favour to them
So i collected them and was driving back when i got stopped by the police i td them i was a private hire driver but in my own car they told me that i had come down with the view of charging them for the trip
The customers were told i was not insured so they said well if he doesn't charge us he can take us home
Anyway i was charged with no insurance but they let me drive off and take the 2 customers home still no money has chafed hands
Where do i stand because despite what they think whether i was there to earn money and none ever changed hands for this trip how can i be reported for no insurance

Money changing hands is irrelevant.

From what you outline you are banged to rights operating as an unlicensed PH, as is your operator who took the booking.

You could also face uninsured driving charges.

Not going to say anymore than if charged I suggest you plead guilty, take the penalties and move on.

A lesson to us all.
Author:  Sussex [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Police stop
mickj0 wrote:
I was on the understanding if i am not displaying a badge or driving a private hire vehicle i can pick the 2 people up as long as i don't charge them it can't be classed as a fare which then means i am insured if i had known all this was gonna happen
I wouldn't have gone

It's amazing how many people believe in such falsehoods.
Author:  Sussex [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Police stop
bloodnock wrote:
Does seem rather odd the they singled you out for a stop check, quite a rare event indeed.

Indeed. :-k
Author:  meltingsmoke [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Police stop
I would think the car you drove was only insure for social and domestic , pleasure purpose.

Outside that area is where people cobber for , you was not using the vehicle for those above ,

I have read about vans / cars getting stop for not have a commercial insurance. or having a commercial insurance. and not for social and domestic , pleasure purpose.

Sorry to be Harsh
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