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Delays on crb means I have to push the limits on regs
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Author:  herfordian [ Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Delays on crb means I have to push the limits on regs
Thanks to my la refusing to reissue my hc license until my enhanced crb comes through I've had to 'play' with the regulations to keep working or go on the dole. (Disclosure unit cann't give me a date when the checks could be completed by only said some people are still waiting after 6 months and I still have bills to pay).

For those who may fall into the same situation here's how I've done it legitamately.

I've set up a travel club which people have to join (totally free) which gives you access to discount chauffeur driven cars. I then contract hire to the club and so I do not need to be badged or plated I only need hire and reward insurance.

As taxis are so expensive in Hereford especially on night tariff (Tarriff 1 +50% from 11.00pm till 7.00am) I have been able to get over 40 people signed up in 2 days!

I'm seriously thinking of withdrawing my license renewal and concentrating on the travel club!

Kevin
Author:  TDO [ Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Interesting. Indeed I've always wondered about the contractual hire situation re the normal taxi office scenario - could it be said that the cars are contracted to the office for more than 7 days, thus they don't have to be plated?

What do the LA think about your club Kevin?
Author:  herfordian [ Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
I believe that membership is the key factor.

Taxi offices deal with the general public and trade with the general public.

I trade with a members only club. By being a club I am not dealing directly or indirectly with the public. It's very much how book clubs used to be able to sell books to it's members at discount prices when the price fixing cartels was in operation.

So when I provide a service to a member of the travel club it is no different to providing a service to a staff member of a company that contracts out it's driver services to a chauffeur company. Taxis and private hire on the otherhand provide a service to a member of the public even if they are contracted to the taxi office. Plus I believe that one of the conditions of being an operator requires you to only use properly licensed cars.

As for Herefordshire Council I'm not too sure on their view of the situation. When my badge ran out on Tuesday and they refused to renew it I gave them details of all the advertising of the club that I was going to launch and gave them copies of the contract that members have to sign so they could have it checked by their own legal team. I have heard nothing from them. so they must be, if not happy, at least accepting of the situation. I'm pretty sure if it was not valid then they would have cntacted me. The contracts was put together by a solicitor and he's pretty happy with the way I want to operate.

But i'll find out when and if the council wants to tackle me on the issue :)

Kevin
Author:  Sussex [ Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
TDO wrote:
Interesting. Indeed I've always wondered about the contractual hire situation re the normal taxi office scenario - could it be said that the cars are contracted to the office for more than 7 days, thus they don't have to be plated?

The 1976 Act exemption allows someone to contract for more than 7 days on the basis of one vehicle, one contract. That contract must have a start and finish date.
Author:  Sussex [ Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delays on crb means I have to push the limits on regs
herfordian wrote:
I've set up a travel club which people have to join (totally free) which gives you access to discount chauffeur driven cars. I then contract hire to the club and so I do not need to be badged or plated I only need hire and reward insurance.

You may, or may not, have worked a way out on the secondry point of contracting from your 'Travel Club' to your vehicle. In the same way as licensed vehicles gain work from licensed operators, but you can't get around the problem of you gaining work for your travel club.

As I said above to TDO, the 1976 act exemption allows for one vehicle, one contract. You have said you have one vehicle and 40 different contracts.

If it was as simple as you imply, then I can assure you many thousands of folks would have beaten you to your ideas.

That aside, I don't know anyone who has waited longer than a month for their CRBs in the last couple of years. And I'm surprised your (ex) council wont re-license you and wait. :-k
Author:  TDO [ Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delays on crb means I have to push the limits on regs
Sussex wrote:
As I said above to TDO, the 1976 act exemption allows for one vehicle, one contract. You have said you have one vehicle and 40 different contracts.



I think the point with the club is that there is only one contract between the car and the club, and thereafter the contract of the club with its members is not part of the 'contract hire' scenario and to that extent not within the ambit of the Act.

I'm still not wholly sure about Kevin's point re people being members of a club rather than not being members of a club, to what extent is that really relevant.

What is the precise wording of the Act?
Author:  TDO [ Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
herfordian wrote:
Plus I believe that one of the conditions of being an operator requires you to only use properly licensed cars.



But if someone is exempted by virtue of the contract hire rule, then the operator rules are not relevant?
Author:  JD [ Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delays on crb means I have to push the limits on regs
herfordian wrote:
Thanks to my la refusing to reissue my hc license until my enhanced crb comes through I've had to 'play' with the regulations to keep working or go on the dole. (Disclosure unit cann't give me a date when the checks could be completed by only said some people are still waiting after 6 months and I still have bills to pay).

For those who may fall into the same situation here's how I've done it legitamately.


It is surprising to hear of a council not re-issuing a badge until the CRC has been processed?

If it as a pre requisite to issuing you your license, next time ask the council to send you the CRC form 6 months in advance of your renewel date.

Regards

JD
Author:  herfordian [ Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delays on crb means I have to push the limits on regs
Sussex wrote:

As I said above to TDO, the 1976 act exemption allows for one vehicle, one contract. You have said you have one vehicle and 40 different contracts.



I don't have 40 contracts. I have one contract with the Travel Club. The travel club has over 40 members. As long as people become members they become part of the identifiable body - the club - that i have a contract with. If I was to contract directly with the public then I would have 40 contracts, but i don't.

Kevin
Author:  Sussex [ Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delays on crb means I have to push the limits on regs
TDO wrote:
What is the precise wording of the Act?

Section75
Saving for certain vehicles etc
(I) Nothing in this Part of this Act shall —
(a) apply to a vehicle used for bringing passengers or goods within a controlled district in pursuance of a contract for the hire of the vehicle made outside the district if the vehicle is not made available for hire within the district;
(b) apply to a vehicle used only for carrying passengers for hire or reward under a contract for the hire of the vehicle for a period of not less than seven days;
(c) apply to a vehicle while it is being used in connection with a funeral or a vehicle used wholly or mainly, by a person carrying on the business of a funeral director, for the purpose of funerals;
[(cc) apply to a vehicle while it is being used in connection with awedding;]
(d) require the display of any plate, disc or notice in or on any private hire vehicle licensed by a council under this Part of this Act during such period that such vehicle is used for carrying passengers for hire or reward—
(i) ...
(ii) under a contract for the hire of the vehicle for a period of not
less than 24 hours.

There are other exemptions, but they don't apply.
Author:  herfordian [ Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Business has passed first test last night.

thanks to the local 'taxi police' who know me as a taxi driver and saw me picking up my clients they called the police who stopped me thinking i was illegally plying for hire.

My passengers showed them their membership card, i showed them the contract and legislation and they were happy. They were also happy with my car insurrance which allows me to drive my car in relation to my business as a chauffeur. - much cheaper than taxi and privatehire insurance at 696 pounds per year fully comp with no no claims :)

All i need know is to be challenged by the la to see how it stands in their books. I think I can be pretty sure that a number of taxi drivers in hereford will be complaining first thing on Monday morning being the whingers that a lot of them are.

Kevin
Author:  streetcar [ Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kevin i know i am being nosy , but who are you insured with . This whole thing sounds to good to be true. streetcar.
Author:  herfordian [ Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi streetcar,

I did an online search for chauffeur insurance and took the quote down to my local broker who was providing me with my normal car insurance and then he matched the quote.

There's loads of different companies offering chauffeur insurance and contract hire insurance.

Kevin
Author:  herfordian [ Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
streetcar wrote:
This whole thing sounds to good to be true. streetcar.


Well i cann't quite believe it's this easy either. I'd have never looked at ways to keep working if i wasn't put into the situation of having to find ways around the law because of having a delay on my hc license. I cann't very well tell my landlord I'm not paying him rent for the next x months because the council won't let me work.

The other benefit for me is that because I do not have the best in credit references I've had to rent a taxi becasue I could not afford to buy a car that is wheelchair friendly or new enough to buy a palte to put on it. So I've been on a 50% split with the owner.

By not being covered by the act it means I can use my own car which is too old to plate and I get to keep all the contract fee :)

There's got to be something I'm not doing right to be able to do this, but as yet I cann't find it guess I'll have to wait until the la find the flaw in my business.

Kevin
Author:  streetcar [ Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kevin .So its saturday night . You sit in your car, 40 members have , persumably your mobile number . One phones you ,you get an hour long job . Dont the 39 other people , get fed up and go and get a normal taxi . I have heard of somthing like, this but they had 15 cars . And loads more members . streetcar
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