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 Post subject: expired dbs
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:57 pm 
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Enquiry for a friend.
Licence renewal received from council 10 weeks before expiry, new DBS required. Application filled in and returned on the same day.
One week before licence expiry new licence not arrived so phones LO - waiting for DBS to come back. Day before expiry still no licence - still waiting for DBS.

Driver asks what happens if DBS not back by the time licence expires, informed they will not be allowed to work.

It's now two weeks since their licence expired, the DBS still hasn't come back (12 weeks since applying), the DBS people say they're waiting for it to come back from the police, and they haven't been able to work.

Licensing say they can't extend the current licence or issue a temporary one and have no idea when the DBS will arrive. It's for an experienced driver who's been in the trade nearly 20 years and had clean DBS/CRBs since they were introduced.

Where do they stand ? Obviously they can't work with an expired licence unless someone gives them permission, licensing say they can't/won't allow it - can they appeal to the licensing commitee for a temporary issue or extension ? None of this is the drivers fault, the renewal was submitted in good time, yet they haven't been able to work and therefore had no income for a fortnight, and have no idea when they will be able to start work again.


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 Post subject: Re: expired dbs
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:26 pm 
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Council are at fault and should allow this driver to renew his license on the understanding that the DBS is clean when it comes back.

Everyone should be aware of this trap devised by Council Officers,DBS should not be allowed to run out on renewal date and Councils must be stopped from operating licensing in this way


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 Post subject: Re: expired dbs
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:38 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
sasha wrote:
Licensing say they can't extend the current licence or issue a temporary one and have no idea when the DBS will arrive. It's for an experienced driver who's been in the trade nearly 20 years and had clean DBS/CRBs since they were introduced.

Licensing are acting like c***s.

They should issue a temporary license.

I can understand not issuing for a new application, but not re-issuing to a driver they have licensed for 20 years is nothing short of a disgrace.

The police have a legal duty to notify the licensing authority if any of us do anything iffy, so if the driver has done something wrong then legally the council should be aware of it already.

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 Post subject: Re: expired dbs
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:35 pm 
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It is not the responsibility of the driver on renewal of their license to prove they are"fit and proper person",it is the Councils responsibility to prove that they are not"fit and proper person" if they wish to refuse to renew drivers license.

In this instance we are discussing they cannot prove the person is not"fit and proper person" therefor they must issue a license or become liable(in my opinion) for loss of earnings.


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 Post subject: Re: expired dbs
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 17838
This is not the first time this has happened. One of our drivers had the same problem a couple of years ago. The Council would not let him drive again until it was received. The council have now changed their policy to state that all drivers must sign up to the annual update service. However a few weeks ago a driver got his DBS back and for whatever reason he was not able to sign up for the update service before the time limit. because of this the Council refused to accept his DBS and told him he had to provide yet another new one. I queried this decision but the best I could get was for them to accept his DBS for a 1 year period and he has to get another one next year.

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 Post subject: Re: expired dbs
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:36 pm
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I was in a similar situation a few years ago when my DBS was late back. The jobsworth at the council told me I couldn’t work until it was returned. As soon as I mentioned claiming for loss of earnings from the council they changed their attitude. A senior LO called me back and said it wasn’t a Problem and they issued me a temporary 1 month badge!


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 Post subject: Re: expired dbs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:06 pm
Posts: 22134
Location: A City near Birmingham
take the DBS and add "updates"...........you never need another

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 Post subject: Re: expired dbs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:44 pm 
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Posts: 17838
wannabeeahack wrote:
take the DBS and add "updates"...........you never need another

For whatever reason the driver here was unable to add the update service.

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 Post subject: Re: expired dbs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:28 pm 
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The update service was only introduced within the last year here, once the driver gets his DBS they will go onto it.

So the council CAN issue a temporary licence if it wanted to ? It's sticking to its rules - no valid DBS no licence.


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 Post subject: Re: expired dbs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:56 pm
Posts: 1759
sasha wrote:
The update service was only introduced within the last year here, once the driver gets his DBS they will go onto it.

So the council CAN issue a temporary licence if it wanted to ? It's sticking to its rules - no valid DBS no licence.



How can the Council prove that a person renewing their license is not a "fit and proper person",stated case said it is the Councils responsibility to prove that a renewal applicant is not" fit and proper person",a delay in getting back DBS certificate does not make the person not "fit and proper person"


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 Post subject: Re: expired dbs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:25 pm 
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heathcote wrote:
sasha wrote:
The update service was only introduced within the last year here, once the driver gets his DBS they will go onto it.

So the council CAN issue a temporary licence if it wanted to ? It's sticking to its rules - no valid DBS no licence.



How can the Council prove that a person renewing their license is not a "fit and proper person",stated case said it is the Councils responsibility to prove that a renewal applicant is not" fit and proper person",a delay in getting back DBS certificate does not make the person not "fit and proper person"

Of course it doesn't but after the Rotherham case Councils have basically been told not to issue a licence to anyone who does not have a current DBS. Because of this many wont take the risk.

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 Post subject: Re: expired dbs
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:24 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Of course it doesn't but after the Rotherham case Councils have basically been told not to issue a licence to anyone who does not have a current DBS. Because of this many wont take the risk.

I think that applies mainly to new applicants.

As has been mentioned councils now have to prove you are not fit and proper, you have to prove nothing.

If a DBS is back late, or not at all, it is the council that doesn't have the prooth, not the driver.

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 Post subject: Re: expired dbs
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:33 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
Of course it doesn't but after the Rotherham case Councils have basically been told not to issue a licence to anyone who does not have a current DBS. Because of this many wont take the risk.

I think that applies mainly to new applicants.

As has been mentioned councils now have to prove you are not fit and proper, you have to prove nothing.

If a DBS is back late, or not at all, it is the council that doesn't have the prooth, not the driver.

But if it is a requirement that an upto date dbs has to be in place then I think it would be difficult for a driver to convince some councils and courts that they should be permitted to continue working. Something could be on the late dbs that would mean that the license should not have been issued and heaven forbid that the driver committed another offense whist waiting for the dbs.

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old fart with no heart


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 Post subject: Re: expired dbs
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:33 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
grandad wrote:
But if it is a requirement that an upto date dbs has to be in place then I think it would be difficult for a driver to convince some councils and courts that they should be permitted to continue working. Something could be on the late dbs that would mean that the license should not have been issued and heaven forbid that the driver committed another offense whist waiting for the dbs.

But there is no set legal timescale as to what is up to date? And council's, as you know, cannot have blanket policies that don't allow for exceptional circumstances.

If there is something on the DBS, from an existing driver, then the council should already know, as the police and social services have a duty to inform licensing departments of anything that they deem might effect the driver's fit and proper status.

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 Post subject: Re: expired dbs
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
But if it is a requirement that an upto date dbs has to be in place then I think it would be difficult for a driver to convince some councils and courts that they should be permitted to continue working. Something could be on the late dbs that would mean that the license should not have been issued and heaven forbid that the driver committed another offense whist waiting for the dbs.

But there is no set legal timescale as to what is up to date? And council's, as you know, cannot have blanket policies that don't allow for exceptional circumstances.

If there is something on the DBS, from an existing driver, then the council should already know, as the police and social services have a duty to inform licensing departments of anything that they deem might effect the driver's fit and proper status.

I thought that there was a tome limit on a DBS at 3 years unless signed up for the update service.
I don't think that all agencies are telling licensing departments about things because I know that some drivers have not reported things and they have only been picked up when they have tried to renew their badges and things have then shown up on their drivers license or DBS.

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old fart with no heart


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