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 Post subject: Re: condition of license
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:51 pm 
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MR T wrote:
heathcote wrote:
MR T wrote:
Sussex wrote:
MR T wrote:
But the thing is.....let's say you were a very naughty boy and were to lose your PH licence for pirating, would you also lose you hackney licence....??

Yes.

Is that legal



When the person holds a dual badge the answer probably is YES,if they are individual licenses NO.

How..?



If they are individual they can only suspend or revoke the license the person has not complied with the conditions or committed an offence under that particular license,unless it is necessary to suspend or revoke licenses on public safety grounds (sexual offences etc.)


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 Post subject: Re: condition of license
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:53 pm 
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heathcote wrote:
If they are individual they can only suspend or revoke the license the person has not complied with the conditions or committed an offence under that particular license,unless it is necessary to suspend or revoke licenses on public safety grounds (sexual offences etc.)

I am going to slightly disagree.

If you hold a dual badge you have in effect, signed up to be bound by conditions on the PH part, so by default on the whole Dual Badge.

If you hold separately both badges and fail to meet conditions on the PH Badge you could be seen as not "Fit and Proper" to hold either badge as a result.

Best option for Dual or Two separate badge holders is, when PH, abide by Conditions.

Best idea if you are in a Dual Badge area is to apply for a Hackney Driving Licence under the TPCA 1847 as amended by the MPA 1976 and, if refused, trot along to the Magistrates Court to Appeal the decision of the LA. One driver aggrieved has 21 days to lodge the appeal. Other Drivers could financially support the Appeal openly or clandestinely. Once one has won, the Council would have to entertain others or face further Appeals. A change of policy would then follow in short order.

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 Post subject: Re: condition of license
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:00 pm 
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Best bet is to adhere to the rules.

Seems a bit strange that we are advising people to get a taxi license to enable them to breach rules that apply to PH drivers.

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 Post subject: Re: condition of license
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Hah so ,if the driver lost his PH Licence for picking up off the road.....they would take his hackney licence away to make sure that he does not do same... :cry: :shock: :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: condition of license
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:03 am 
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MR T wrote:
Hah so ,if the driver lost his PH Licence for picking up off the road.....they would take his hackney licence away to make sure that he does not do same... :cry: :shock: :shock:

No, because they have shown themselves to be not "Fit and Proper" because they didn't follow the rules applicable!

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 Post subject: Re: condition of license
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:11 am 
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Chris the Fish wrote:
MR T wrote:
Hah so ,if the driver lost his PH Licence for picking up off the road.....they would take his hackney licence away to make sure that he does not do same... :cry: :shock: :shock:

No, because they have shown themselves to be not "Fit and Proper" because they didn't follow the rules applicable!

Well over the top...… IMO. You can not argue that hackneys are different to PH and then when it suits you argue they are the same...

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 Post subject: Re: condition of license
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:26 am 
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I think I didn't explain myself very well Mr T.

What I am getting at is if take on a job as PH you agree defacto to abide by the conditions attached to that Licence.

If you have no choice but to take a Dual Badge you defacto agree to be ruled by conditions and, if the LA has got them in place, bylaws as well.

If you through choice have two separate badges you must follow conditions when working as PH and follow bylaws when working as a Taxi Driver.

if you offend on one, the Committee would consider whether you were "Fit and Proper" in light of the offence, to be licensed at all.

Some things, like speeding or jumping a traffic light would have implications on both obviously. Other things, for example not wearing or displaying a badge may have immediate effects on one badge, but it would also have an effect on the other. In both scenarios you would have shown yourself to be potentially "Not Fit and Proper".

Obeying rules that you are subject to in all the areas of your life, all make up your "Standing" in society.

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 Post subject: Re: condition of license
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Find it difficult to think of a scenario where being deemed *not* fit and proper to work under one code leaves the driver fit and proper to work under the other code.

Put it another way, if an LA has completely separate badges and a driver is stripped of one, would the same LA entertain an application from the same driver for the other badge? No.


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 Post subject: Re: condition of license
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:14 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
Find it difficult to think of a scenario where being deemed *not* fit and proper to work under one code leaves the driver fit and proper to work under the other code.

Put it another way, if an LA has completely separate badges and a driver is stripped of one, would the same LA entertain an application from the same driver for the other badge? No.

Everyone has to abide by the law. The council, drivers and the public. The law states you need a licence to drive a hackney and a different licence to drive a ph, and another one to drive a bus, but nowhere does it say that a ph and hackney licence should be combined. If a licencing officer was to use his own car and insurance when out checking on drivers and was to be prosecuted and found guilty of not having the correct insurance i.e. business insurance, would he then lose his job? I don't think so, so what is fit and proper? It is whatever suits the licencing officer at the time. So under those rules if a ph driver decides to surrender his ph badge, the what can the council do. If he decides to take out a hackney badge they can't prosecute him, and in reality he will still be picking up off the road but correctly licenced.

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 Post subject: Re: condition of license
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:46 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
Find it difficult to think of a scenario where being deemed *not* fit and proper to work under one code leaves the driver fit and proper to work under the other code.

Put it another way, if an LA has completely separate badges and a driver is stripped of one, would the same LA entertain an application from the same driver for the other badge? No.

With that, StuartW, I agree entirely.

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 Post subject: Re: condition of license
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:02 pm 
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MR T wrote:
Everyone has to abide by the law. The council, drivers and the public. The law states you need a licence to drive a hackney and a different licence to drive a ph, and another one to drive a bus, but nowhere does it say that a ph and hackney licence should be combined. If a licencing officer was to use his own car and insurance when out checking on drivers and was to be prosecuted and found guilty of not having the correct insurance i.e. business insurance, would he then lose his job? I don't think so, so what is fit and proper? It is whatever suits the licencing officer at the time. So under those rules if a ph driver decides to surrender his ph badge, the what can the council do. If he decides to take out a hackney badge they can't prosecute him, and in reality he will still be picking up off the road but correctly licenced.


Don't want to get bogged down with the legality of dual badges (up here, if you have a taxi badge it automatically covers you to drive PH, and that's quite clear in the legislation) or the conditions/by-laws stuff - will leave that to those who know about these things.

But in principle I find it difficult to see how someone banned under one code could be considered fit and proper under the other code, even if the applicable rules don't apply to the other code.

For example, if a PH driver lost his badge for plying for hire, or an HC driver lost his badge for cherry-picking/overcharging, would the LA entertain an application from the driver for a badge under the other code, even if the rules he'd broken are irrelevant under the other code?

I suspect not - it's not about the individual rules, it's about principles of honesty and abiding by rules more generally.

Are there any real world examples of drivers being banned under one code but being granted a badge under the other? I suspect not.

So to that degree it shouldn't be a problem if a driver loses a dual badge and thus the right to drive under both codes, because if the badges were separate then they wouldn't be able to lose one and apply for the other anyway.

And if a driver has different badges under both codes then I would imagine that if he lost one badge (for plying for hire in a PH, or overcharging in an HC, say) he'd automatically lose the other as well.


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 Post subject: Re: condition of license
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:17 pm 
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Dual badge........

well if your gonna feck up might as well do it proper

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