Taxi Driver Online

Legal seats
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Author:  Sussex [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Legal seats

So a taxi is always a taxi, but a taxi driver isn't always a taxi driver?

I was thinking that when I wrote it, but I still stand by it.

A taxi driver isn't a taxi driver if he drives a PH, but a taxi is a taxi if it does PH work.

In other words I believe there is flexibility when a taxi driver isn't working, but no flexibility when a taxi isn't being used as a taxi.

Author:  Sussex [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Legal seats

Slightly inconsistent argument there - if a taxi is always a taxi and thus the vehicle conditions apply and it always has to be driven by a taxi driver, then it surely follows that the driver will have to adhere to whatever rules apply?

Maybe the flexibility I mention is for when there are no paying punters in the taxi. That would cover the dress code, or a smelly code.

Author:  StuartW [ Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Legal seats

Couldn't be bothered reading it at the time, and won't be reading the whole lot any time soon, but had a quick look at the Law Commission's 2014 report to see what they said about domestic use. One interesting point that hasn't been mentioned is that anyone can drive a London HC or PHV, ie they don't have to be a licensed driver :shock:

Law Commission 2014, para 4.109, wrote:
In London, taxis and private hire vehicles can be used privately as well as to provide transport services. This is not the case, however, elsewhere in England and Wales, where the vehicle must always be driven by a licensed driver. This excludes family and friends from using it, and often means drivers must have two vehicles: one for work, another for private use by, for example, a spouse or partner.

So basically the position seems to be:

- London: anyone can drive a licensed vehicle for domestic use;

- Scotland: a grey area which needs clarified, but seems many councils turn a blind eye to spouses using licensed vehicles for domestic use;

- In the rest of England, only a licensed driver can drive a licensed vehicle for domestic use.

But as regards the particular point of this thread, the Law Commission doesn't say anything as far as I can see, but this footnote is perhaps interesting:

Law Commission 2014, footnote 75, wrote:
It is also not entirely clear what the legal position is when a licensed driver uses their vehicle privately but with passengers; for example, where he or she offers a lift to a family member or friend. might expect this to be entirely lawful as both driver and vehicle are licensed.

So although the Law Commission accepts the position in both London and the rest of England as regards who can *drive* a licensed vehicle domestically, when it comes to actually carrying passengers in a domestic scenario it simply says that it's "not entirely clear what the legal position is".

So, presumably, as regards whether the HC/PH vehicle and/or driver conditions apply when carrying passengers domestically, the Law Commission didn't even consider the issue. So if the Law Commission thinks the law as regards simply carrying passengers domestically is unclear, presumably that would also be the case as regards vehicle and driver conditions [-(

The footnote regarding the basic point in England (outside London) simply states:

Law Commission 2014, footnote 74, wrote:
This stems from the maxim “once a taxi, always a taxi”, established in Hawkins v Edwards
[1901] 2 KB 169 and Yates v Gates [1970] 2 QB 27. For private hire vehicles, see Benson
v Boyce
[1997] RTR 226. Consequently, driving of the vehicle by an unlicensed person is
an offence even if it is unrelated to any hiring.

Author:  StuartW [ Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Legal seats

Of course, the Law Commission recommended that any licensed vehicle should be useable for 'non-professional use' by unlicensed drivers, but not sure if the Govt has ever responded to that, or if the more recent Task and Finish group addressed the issue.

Law Commission 2014 wrote:
Recommendation 29

Non-professional use of licensed taxi and private hire vehicles,
including by non-professional drivers, should be permitted,
subject to a rebuttable presumption that such vehicles are being
used professionally when they are carrying passengers.

Doncha just love those 'rebuttable presumptions' 8-[

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