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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:00 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
Sussex wrote:
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Hardly surprising that clinicians don't want the onus of deciding who's fit and proper - legally that's the ultimate responsibility of local authorities, rightly or wrongly:

But are they being asked that?

Our medical forms are merely tick box exercise. The doctor just ticks or puts in the details of what he has observed during the examination.

It's still down to the council to determine if the driver is fit and proper, based on what the medical form states.


Depends on each local authority's procedures (obviously).

But my point about the St Helens thread that I linked to was that there the forms seemed to be putting the onus on the clinicians to decide.

As I said, suspect the clinicians would prefer the onus to be on the LAs, and vice versa from the LAs' perspective.

Of course, legally the onus is on the LAs, but that won't necessarily stop the LAs trying to pass the buck to the GPs, as the St Helens case seemed to demonstrate.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34516&p=391709

Jimbo clearly doesn't like the idea of local authority officials and councillors having the final say, but my point to him was that that's the legal position, rightly or wrongly.


The legal position? Is there a legal position?

If the council saw from my “medical “ that I suffered from galloping knob rot, or atrial fibrillation, or cataracts, or athletes foot, or hay fever, who amongst them is fit to judge my fitness to drive a taxi?
Surely they would then be at risk of a legal challenge.
When I first started out in this trade over 35 years ago, and back then, all you needed was two references from people who knew you. The taxi inspector back then was an ex cop, and he would have a quiet word with an ex colleague to see if you had any previous. A couple of days later, for £10.00 (!) you got a one year badge, and off you went to a glorious career. No CRB/ DBS no medical. No sat navs or mobile phones either, so you needed to know what you were doing.

The guy who introduced the CRB, after Soham, believes it is just used as a box ticking exercise, because it just hasn’t worked, has it.

A medical is a box ticking exercise also, so that should a driver die at the wheel, the council can claim they did all they could to avoid such a thing, and are therefore un-sue-able. So they passed the buck to the medics, and now the medics, afraid of being sued themselves, are passing the buck back to the councils.

Sooner or later, a driver will be refused a badge for wearing glasses.

I do find it fascinating how some on here actually defend councils for insisting on medicals and DBS checks when they are as much use as a chocolate fire guard.

I will have retired, thankfully before the schiesen hits the fan.

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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:13 am 
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If the council saw from my “medical “ that I suffered from galloping knob rot, or atrial fibrillation, or cataracts, or athletes foot, or hay fever, who amongst them is fit to judge my fitness to drive a taxi?

But do they ask those questions?

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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:16 am 
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I do find it fascinating how some on here actually defend councils for insisting on medicals and DBS checks when they are as much use as a chocolate fire guard.

I disagree.

Clearly those safeguards are not fail-safe safeguards, but just because you can't stop all bad folks from joining the trade shouldn't mean you stop stopping the other 95%.

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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:15 am 
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Sussex wrote:
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I do find it fascinating how some on here actually defend councils for insisting on medicals and DBS checks when they are as much use as a chocolate fire guard.

I disagree.

Clearly those safeguards are not fail-safe safeguards, but just because you can't stop all bad folks from joining the trade shouldn't mean you stop stopping the other 95%.


By all means disagree. But do you know of anyone, anyone at all, who was an existing taxi driver, on having a medical being refused a badge because of underlying health concerns? “I had no idea I was totally blind until my doctor told me. However, he’s unwilling to tick the fit/unfit to drive box” scenario.

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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:25 am 
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jimbo wrote:
But do you know of anyone, anyone at all, who was an existing taxi driver, on having a medical being refused a badge because of underlying health concerns? “I had no idea I was totally blind until my doctor told me. However, he’s unwilling to tick the fit/unfit to drive box” scenario.

A chap here was refused a renewal due to his health. He has since been prosecuted for continueing to work as a "taxi driver" and he is about to be prosecuted again.

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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:26 am 
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Surely your medical is an assessment of your health nothing more nothing less. If something comes up which indicates that you may not be fit to drive that will appear and the licensing officers and or committee will take the decision

I therefore cannot see why a GP wouldn't do a medical after all they gain financially from it and there should be no liability to them arising from a refusal as it is licensing that decide if there is risk to the general public

I think Lincoln council should be proactive in getting doctors to perform the medicals

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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:09 pm 
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I’ve known plenty of older drivers who thought their eyesight was fine (driving without glasses) only to fail their medical with bad eyesight.


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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:22 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
Surely your medical is an assessment of your health nothing more nothing less. If something comes up which indicates that you may not be fit to drive that will appear and the licensing officers and or committee will take the decision

I therefore cannot see why a GP wouldn't do a medical after all they gain financially from it and there should be no liability to them arising from a refusal as it is licensing that decide if there is risk to the general public

I think Lincoln council should be proactive in getting doctors to perform the medicals



I’m sure you’re a lovely chap, and all, edders, but I have never known anyone besides you, that is so adept at grasping a stick by the wrong end.
Just as you are under no obligation whatsoever to accept a fare you do not wish to do, as you told us recently, your drivers decline big jobs all the time, allegedly.
Doctors are under no obligation whatsoever to carry out a drivers medical if they do not wish to. And no one can force or cajole them to do so, proactively or not.

But how about instead of medicals, councils introduce a basic fitness test (BFT) like the armed forces have. You have to run one and a half miles in under ten minutes to qualify for a drivers badge. It’s a pass or fail, so could easily be supervised by a licensing officer, or two.

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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:13 pm 
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Quote:
who was an existing taxi driver, on having a medical being refused a badge because of underlying health concerns?

Yes, dozens.

Some retire, some wait to get better, some ask for a reassessment from a public health specialist doctor.

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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:33 am 
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jimbo wrote:
edders23 wrote:
Surely your medical is an assessment of your health nothing more nothing less. If something comes up which indicates that you may not be fit to drive that will appear and the licensing officers and or committee will take the decision

I therefore cannot see why a GP wouldn't do a medical after all they gain financially from it and there should be no liability to them arising from a refusal as it is licensing that decide if there is risk to the general public

I think Lincoln council should be proactive in getting doctors to perform the medicals



I’m sure you’re a lovely chap, and all, edders, but I have never known anyone besides you, that is so adept at grasping a stick by the wrong end.
Just as you are under no obligation whatsoever to accept a fare you do not wish to do, as you told us recently, your drivers decline big jobs all the time, allegedly.
Doctors are under no obligation whatsoever to carry out a drivers medical if they do not wish to. And no one can force or cajole them to do so, proactively or not.

But how about instead of medicals, councils introduce a basic fitness test (BFT) like the armed forces have. You have to run one and a half miles in under ten minutes to qualify for a drivers badge. It’s a pass or fail, so could easily be supervised by a licensing officer, or two.

Well that would exclude most taxi drivers from getting a badge.

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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:05 am 
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We are obliged to have Group 2 (HGV) medical

TBH if truckers pass what we have that id be scared to venture out

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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:06 pm 
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grandad wrote:
jimbo wrote:
edders23 wrote:
Surely your medical is an assessment of your health nothing more nothing less. If something comes up which indicates that you may not be fit to drive that will appear and the licensing officers and or committee will take the decision

I therefore cannot see why a GP wouldn't do a medical after all they gain financially from it and there should be no liability to them arising from a refusal as it is licensing that decide if there is risk to the general public

I think Lincoln council should be proactive in getting doctors to perform the medicals



I’m sure you’re a lovely chap, and all, edders, but I have never known anyone besides you, that is so adept at grasping a stick by the wrong end.
Just as you are under no obligation whatsoever to accept a fare you do not wish to do, as you told us recently, your drivers decline big jobs all the time, allegedly.
Doctors are under no obligation whatsoever to carry out a drivers medical if they do not wish to. And no one can force or cajole them to do so, proactively or not.

But how about instead of medicals, councils introduce a basic fitness test (BFT) like the armed forces have. You have to run one and a half miles in under ten minutes to qualify for a drivers badge. It’s a pass or fail, so could easily be supervised by a licensing officer, or two.

Well that would exclude most taxi drivers from getting a badge.



I know but it would be very funny to watch.

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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:51 pm 
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I thought there were many independent practices doing Ph and Taxi driver medicals as a sideliine, cant recall having heard any drivers that have used them having to supply their medical records when they did, i thought these D4 based scottish medicals were health assessments carried out on the day with proof of a successful eyetest from an optician.


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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:15 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
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They cannot pick and choose,if they do them for HGV,BUS DRIVERS,AIRLINE PILOTS,OFFSHORE WORKERS AND SEAMEN declaring whether they are fit or unfit to fulfil their duties,I would think they will be infringing
the rights of everyone to be treaty equally.
Stop doing them for our trade and they will have to stop doing them for everyone else leading to mass unemployment.


But I doubt GPs are declaring whether or not these people are fit and proper - don't know about pilots etc, but as regards HGV and bus drivers, the ultimate decision will I suspect rest with the DVLA.


But there by hangs the problem, the GPs are assessing PH and HC drivers to the levels of a D4 Medical but not actually carrying out nor filling a D4 medical certificate, the DVLA cant assess a HC or PH D4 beacause it's not in their power to do so.

The Scottish parliament went off half baked when the Bin lorry driver killed those people in glasgow, something do with his poor medical state or fitness to drive, anyhoos, without proper consultation or advice the Holyrood muppets decided to make a reccomendation to the LA's that we all needed D4 type levels of medical checks but failed to grasp that they were asking or something no GP could give.....an Opinion on how Fit you are, hardly surprising then that GPs often wont do these medicals, yes they'll give you a D4 medical certicicate, but the councils wont accept a D4 even though it's proves the levels of fitness they seek.

No the council want the GP to fill in a different piece of amatuer council paperwork to simply say that in the GP's opinion your fit to drive and have attained D4 levels.

This D4 was only ever a Holyrood reccomendation, it was never set in stone as being a legal requirement, but most councils took as being mandatory and enforced it anyway.

The whole thing was a complete mess, ill thought through, no consultation with medical sector nor Doctors....indeed Typical Holyrood nonsense.

Now many drivers of an age where they need Medicals every five years or even yearly are finding it tough to supply proof of health even though they are most likely fit as fleas....the Scottish Parliament may put many out of a job no matter how well intended their half baked plan actually was.


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 Post subject: Re: Medical woes.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:51 am 
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Ashfield Council openly tout a local doctor who doesn't have access to your medical records. £35 in and out within 15 mins job done.


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