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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:34 pm 
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So. Signs on cross border hire vehicles.

Lincoln as anywhere has its share of out of town hacks working for private hire companies based in the city. These are saloons plated in many other districts. But some, not all have door stickers that are required by the council stating the company name and telephone number, and laughably the statement that they are a private hire vehicle and must be pre booked. Is it legal for a hackney carriage vehicle to carry signage that claims that it is a private hire vehicle?

At least one vehicle now carries signage that says “ Direct Car’s Taxis” apart from the awful incorrect use of the apostrophe, this vehicle, operating as a PH, is claiming to be a taxi. Is this in contravention of the misc prov act? I’d like to think so.

What are your thoughts?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:30 pm 
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Location: Hampshire (HC)
The great majority of our work is, effectively, PH but we are all HC and carry signs with company name and phone number.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:42 pm 
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If it's a taxi working out of area it can still claim to be a taxi.

Clearly no PH local or non local can't claim to be a taxi.

In short it's a mess, and a mess that no one outside of the trade gives a f*** about. :sad:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:24 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
If it's a taxi working out of area it can still claim to be a taxi.

Clearly no PH local or non local can't claim to be a taxi.

In short it's a mess, and a mess that no one outside of the trade gives a f*** about. :sad:



Yes and this mess was created by greedy private hire operators.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:19 pm 
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Only hackney carriages may use the word 'taxi' or 'cab' on the vehicle or in advertising.
Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, s48(1)(a)(ii).
Derby City Council requires operators to inform customers where the vehicle dispatched to them is not licensed by Derby City Council. It also prohibits vehicles licensed outside the area from displaying the livery of a private hire operator licensed by Derby City Council.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:24 pm 
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mancityfan wrote:
Only hackney carriages may use the word 'taxi' or 'cab' on the vehicle or in advertising.
Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, s48(1)(a)(ii).


But the vehicles Jimbo was talking about are plated as HCs, so can't really see the problem with the word taxi on them. Whether they're doing primarily pre-booked work in another area doesn't seem to be relevant to the 1976 Act.

ManCityFan wrote:
Derby City Council requires operators to inform customers where the vehicle dispatched to them is not licensed by Derby City Council. It also prohibits vehicles licensed outside the area from displaying the livery of a private hire operator licensed by Derby City Council


Interesting, but what jurisdiction does Derby City Council have over vehicles plated elsewhere, whether as HC or PH?

Jimbo wrote:
Lincoln as anywhere has its share of out of town hacks working for private hire companies based in the city. These are saloons plated in many other districts. But some, not all have door stickers that are required by the council stating the company name and telephone number, and laughably the statement that they are a private hire vehicle and must be pre booked. Is it legal for a hackney carriage vehicle to carry signage that claims that it is a private hire vehicle?


Good question, but maybe the broader point is as per my point above? What jurisdiction has your council got over vehicles plated elsewhere? Which comes back to a discussion with Sussex a few months ago about what jurisdiction a council has over HCs working with a PH circuit with regard to pre-booked work? And that's just in relation to the HCs a local council licences, never mind those plated elsewhere.

As I recall it, Sussex thought that a council has similar jurisdiction over HCs working with a PH operator as PH plated cars, although I was a bit sceptical about that (and I think his opinion related to local HCs, so not so sure about out-of-area HCs).

After all, someone like Edders could move a fleet of SKDC-plated HCs into Lincoln and run them on a circuit from Stamford, and there's not a thing Lincoln council could do about it [-(


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:51 pm 
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But the vehicles Jimbo was talking about are plated as HCs, so can't really see the problem with the word taxi on them. Whether they're doing primarily pre-booked work in another area doesn't seem to be relevant to the 1976 Act.


precisely and the PH's that ply for hire out of area can do so with impunity courtesy of the deregulation act which gives many a licensing officer the perfect excuse not to enforce

which is why the trade so desperately needs updated legislation

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:26 am 
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edders23 wrote:
Quote:
But the vehicles Jimbo was talking about are plated as HCs, so can't really see the problem with the word taxi on them. Whether they're doing primarily pre-booked work in another area doesn't seem to be relevant to the 1976 Act.


precisely and the PH's that ply for hire out of area can do so with impunity courtesy of the deregulation act which gives many a licensing officer the perfect excuse not to enforce

which is why the trade so desperately needs updated legislation



Not correct,any private hire vehicle plying for hire can be challenged and prosecuted by any licensing officer caught doing so in their licensing district.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:47 am 
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heathcote wrote:
edders23 wrote:
Quote:
But the vehicles Jimbo was talking about are plated as HCs, so can't really see the problem with the word taxi on them. Whether they're doing primarily pre-booked work in another area doesn't seem to be relevant to the 1976 Act.


precisely and the PH's that ply for hire out of area can do so with impunity courtesy of the deregulation act which gives many a licensing officer the perfect excuse not to enforce

which is why the trade so desperately needs updated legislation



Not correct,any private hire vehicle plying for hire can be challenged and prosecuted by any licensing officer caught doing so in their licensing district.



That's not in dispute what I said was it gives them the excuse NOT to do so

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:37 pm 
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heathcote wrote:
edders23 wrote:
Quote:
But the vehicles Jimbo was talking about are plated as HCs, so can't really see the problem with the word taxi on them. Whether they're doing primarily pre-booked work in another area doesn't seem to be relevant to the 1976 Act.


precisely and the PH's that ply for hire out of area can do so with impunity courtesy of the deregulation act which gives many a licensing officer the perfect excuse not to enforce

which is why the trade so desperately needs updated legislation



Not correct,any private hire vehicle plying for hire can be challenged and prosecuted by any licensing officer caught doing so in their licensing district.

We may be putting this to the test shortly. A chap who was licensed here has now got a license from Rushcliffe and is using a Rushcliffe plated private hire car but he is still accepting bookings here without an operators license.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:00 pm 
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A hack from another LA does not have to comply with YOUR areas licensing regs, though they are likely to carry door signs for the base taking thier rent...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:40 pm 
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A licensing officer can act on anything within their area that they deem to be iffy. Be that a non local licensed vehicle or a private car.

The issue is do they have the right to stop, to search, to request details from the driver.

First two they don't IMO, the latter they can. Whether the driver passes on any details is another matter.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:35 pm 
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So following on, can a council impose a condition on a private hire operators license stating that any out of town Hackney’s that are working for them remove the box light?

After all they’re not really Hackney’s, just taking advantage of a poor law and doing private hire work predominantly in another area.

We’ve suggested this, but our licensing authority says that the out of town Hackney would be in breach of its own licensing conditions, as such it can’t impose a condition to remove the box light/hire light on the operators license.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:18 pm 
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Quote:
So following on, can a council impose a condition on a private hire operators license stating that any out of town Hackney’s that are working for them remove the box light?

IMO no.

Council can't really expect operators to enforce vehicle license conditions, and I suspect those vehicles will have licensing requirements that they must have a roof-light.

Also the licensed operators don't need a license to give hackneys any work.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:31 pm 
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187ums2 wrote:
We’ve suggested this, but our licensing authority says that the out of town Hackney would be in breach of its own licensing conditions, as such it can’t impose a condition to remove the box light/hire light on the operators license.

Difficult to see what jurisdiction councils and operators have over out-of-area HCs, or even what jurisdiction local PH operators are expected to have over local HCs working on their circuit.

It's essentially a loophole, and a loophole that only parliament can close conclusively. Local authorities can't do parliament's job for it, and if it attempted to do so then it would probably be acting illegally.


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