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 Post subject: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:00 pm 
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Is there any case law either way regarding a private hire vehicle either picking up a booked fare from a rank (not waiting, customer ready.) or setting down a passenger at a rank?

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 Post subject: Re: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:46 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Is there any case law either way regarding a private hire vehicle either picking up a booked fare from a rank (not waiting, customer ready.) or setting down a passenger at a rank?

I think it would be a bit mean prosecuting a PH driver for dropping someone off at a rank, so doubt there is any case law on that.

However I'm not so sure it would be as mean prosecuting a PH picking up at a rank, even if the job was pre-booked.

There could also be a case of prosecuting the operator for facilitating such an illegal act.

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 Post subject: Re: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:34 pm 
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Most (if not all) signage on ranks state, “No stopping except Taxis” therefore it’s a parking offence, just the same as if a private car had stopped there.


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 Post subject: Re: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:42 am 
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Is there not something in the 1976 act that says PH cannot pick up or drop off at taxi ranks ?

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 Post subject: Re: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:17 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
Is there not something in the 1976 act that says PH cannot pick up or drop off at taxi ranks ?

That rings a bell with me as well.

Of course, if a PHD was fannying about at or near a rank that could provide evidence of plying for hire, but doubt if a quick drop or legitimate pick up would be problematic in that regard.


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 Post subject: Re: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:59 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
Is there not something in the 1976 act that says PH cannot pick up or drop off at taxi ranks ?

Sec 64 Prohibition of other vehicles on hackney carriage stands
(1) No person shall cause or permit any vehicle other than a hackney carriage to wait on any stand for hackney carriages during any period for which that stand has been appointed, or is deemed to have been appointed, by a district council under the provisions of section 63 of this Act.
(2) Notice of the prohibition in this section shall be indicated by such traffic signs as may be prescribed or authorised for the purpose by the Secretary of State in pursuance of his powers under [section 64 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984].
(3) If any person without reasonable excuse contravenes the provisions of this section, he shall be guilty of an offence.
(4) In any proceedings under this section against the driver of a public service vehicle it shall be a defence to show that, by reason of obstruction to traffic or for other compelling reason, he caused his vehicle to wait on a stand or part thereof and that he caused or permitted his vehicle so to wait only for so long as was reasonably necessary for the taking up or setting down of passengers.


The question is, is waiting the same as dropping or pick up?

IMO it is not.

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 Post subject: Re: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:28 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
edders23 wrote:
Is there not something in the 1976 act that says PH cannot pick up or drop off at taxi ranks ?

Sec 64 Prohibition of other vehicles on hackney carriage stands
(1) No person shall cause or permit any vehicle other than a hackney carriage to wait on any stand for hackney carriages during any period for which that stand has been appointed, or is deemed to have been appointed, by a district council under the provisions of section 63 of this Act.
(2) Notice of the prohibition in this section shall be indicated by such traffic signs as may be prescribed or authorised for the purpose by the Secretary of State in pursuance of his powers under [section 64 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984].
(3) If any person without reasonable excuse contravenes the provisions of this section, he shall be guilty of an offence.
(4) In any proceedings under this section against the driver of a public service vehicle it shall be a defence to show that, by reason of obstruction to traffic or for other compelling reason, he caused his vehicle to wait on a stand or part thereof and that he caused or permitted his vehicle so to wait only for so long as was reasonably necessary for the taking up or setting down of passengers.


The question is, is waiting the same as dropping or pick up?

IMO it is not.


Part 3 mentions "reasonable Cause." Would picking up a pre booked fare who was ready at the roadside be considered "reasonable cause?"
Would section 4 cover a private hire vehicle?

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 Post subject: Re: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:00 pm 
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And there’s me thinking ‘No Stopping’ meant no stopping, no waiting, no picking up, no dropping off. Silly me!


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 Post subject: Re: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:30 pm 
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x-ray wrote:
And there’s me thinking ‘No Stopping’ meant no stopping, no waiting, no picking up, no dropping off. Silly me!

Well if the legislation says no *waiting* but the signs says no *stopping* then seems to be some kind of conflict.

No *waiting* would generally accommodate *stopping* to drop or pick up, just like double yellow lines in general.


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 Post subject: Re: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:36 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
edders23 wrote:
Is there not something in the 1976 act that says PH cannot pick up or drop off at taxi ranks ?

Sec 64 Prohibition of other vehicles on hackney carriage stands
(1) No person shall cause or permit any vehicle other than a hackney carriage to wait on any stand for hackney carriages during any period for which that stand has been appointed, or is deemed to have been appointed, by a district council under the provisions of section 63 of this Act.
(2) Notice of the prohibition in this section shall be indicated by such traffic signs as may be prescribed or authorised for the purpose by the Secretary of State in pursuance of his powers under [section 64 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984].
(3) If any person without reasonable excuse contravenes the provisions of this section, he shall be guilty of an offence.
(4) In any proceedings under this section against the driver of a public service vehicle it shall be a defence to show that, by reason of obstruction to traffic or for other compelling reason, he caused his vehicle to wait on a stand or part thereof and that he caused or permitted his vehicle so to wait only for so long as was reasonably necessary for the taking up or setting down of passengers.


The question is, is waiting the same as dropping or pick up?

IMO it is not.


Part 3 mentions "reasonable Cause." Would picking up a pre booked fare who was ready at the roadside be considered "reasonable cause?"
Would section 4 cover a private hire vehicle?

But, consistent with what Sussex says, that would be allowed anyway because the car isn't *waiting*. So (3) becomes irrelevant.

As for (4), by the looks of it 'public service vehicle' is some kind of bus. Which would presumably be able to set down or pick up people anyway if it's not waiting (as per a PHV) but maybe the legislators added (4) because a PSV would probably take a bit longer to complete the process, so more likely to be considered to be *waiting*. In fact (4) uses the word *wait* twice, effectively acknowledging that a PSV would take a bit longer to do its stuff rather than just *stopping*.


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 Post subject: Re: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:47 pm 
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All of the ranks here in Chester state ‘no stopping except taxis.’


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 Post subject: Re: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:59 pm 
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x-ray wrote:
All of the ranks here in Chester state ‘no stopping except taxis.’

Certainly seems to be some conflict with the legislation, then, assuming that the no *waiting* in the legislation doesn't prevent drivers stopping for a brief period.

But whether councils can maybe specify restrictions more stringent than that in the licensing legislation I'm not sure :-k


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 Post subject: Re: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:18 pm 
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For what it's worth, the Scottish legislation specifically uses the word 'wait' rather than 'stop', so drops and pick ups presumably allowed:

s 21(7) Civic Government (Scotland) Act wrote:
If any person, without reasonable excuse, causes or permits any vehicle other than a taxi to wait on any stance for taxis during any period for which that stance has been appointed by a licensing authority under section 19 of this Act, he shall be guilty of an offence and liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding...

That's consistent with the sign on our main night rank in St Andrews, which has the small circle with a diagonal red line.

I think that generally means 'no waiting' as opposed to 'no stopping'. If there's two diagonal red lines (ie a cross) then that seems to mean no *stopping*, eg on a clearway or double *red* lines on a red route.

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 Post subject: Re: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:30 pm 
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Quote:
Part 3 mentions "reasonable Cause." Would picking up a pre booked fare who was ready at the roadside be considered "reasonable cause?"
Would section 4 cover a private hire vehicle?

Possibly, but it all depends on the circumstances at the time.

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 Post subject: Re: picking up at a rank
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:34 pm 
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x-ray wrote:
And there’s me thinking ‘No Stopping’ meant no stopping, no waiting, no picking up, no dropping off. Silly me!

The act says no waiting, not no stopping.

If we compare the picking up a pre-booked job at a rank, or a PH dropping off on a rank, to the picking up and dropping off on a red route, then the higher courts have stated a PH (or a hackney) is allowed to do so.

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