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Stretch bloody limos
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Author:  Sussex [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Stretch bloody limos
Taken from the current edition of Licensing News



STRETCHING THE FARE

With over 11,000 such vehicles on the road according to the National Limousine Association, they have posed a licensing headache with licensing authorities unhappy to licence vehicles which can carry more than eight passengers, and whose provenance, maintenance and general roadworthiness is often in question.

Features such as low ceilings and inadequate emergency exits mean that at the moment, not a single limo in the country can safely carry more than eight passengers. The Traffic Commissioners have often been reluctant to licence these vehicles for similar reasons, as they would breach the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981.

The Local Government Association has today warned that local licensing officers will work closely with the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency to take action against the estimated 6000 vehicles that are operating illegally. Many of these vehicles are stretched Navigator or Hummers imported from the US, capable of carrying up to thirty passengers, costing up to £100,000 and with hire charges of around £450 an hour in London.

The LGA is also calling for people to inform their local council if operators offer cars for more than eight people.

Councils around the country are already taking proactive action to deal with the vehicles. Thurrock, Chelmsford, Basildon, Southend and other Essex authorities regularly work with the local police on enforcement operations, and a recent check saw all twelve vehicles that were stopped to be breaking the law.

Greater Manchester councils have banded together to write to all limo businesses in the region, advising them that action will be taken if they are breaking the law, and Birmingham city council regularly carries out test purchasing.

Under the present law, local authorities licence vehicles for private hire when they carry eight or less passengers. Any more than that and the vehicle needs a public service vehicle licence and a certificate of initial fitness, which are demanded of buses or minibuses and subjecting those vehicles to more regular MOTs. PSVs are licensed by the Traffic Commissioners, who have not licensed any stretch limousine.

LGA transport spokesman councillor David Sparks said: 'It is deeply worrying that so many limo companies are taking the safety of their passengers so lightly. Because of their low roofs and lack of decent safety exits, these vehicles just aren't safe for lots of passengers'.

'Limo businesses should be warned that councils will work with the police to take action against those that flout the law. People should contact their council if they are offered limos for more than eight passengers'.

To help support licensing authorities and limo operators, the Department for Transport intends to publish a short guidance document, available in the Library section of www.instituteoflicensing.org Covering both private hire vehicle licensing and PSV licensing issues, the booklet also explains the concept of PSVs ainv to charge seperate fares to operate, and the routes available to operators who have licences refused by a local authority.

The number of limousines are expected to grow from 3000 vehicles in 2003, to 11,000 this year. Expansion is expected to continue at the rate of 50 per cent a year for the next five years. Membership of the National Limousine Association has almost trebled in the past three years.
An explosion in bookings to take children to American-style 'proms' has helped to fuel the demand. David Carrigan, of Limelight Limousines in Belfast, told The Times that limos brimming with children was a common sight: 'I often see people carrying fourteen young people in a short limo that should only hold eight and that is dangerous,' he said.

'I always make sure under-18s are accompanied by an adult but a lot of companies don't. We should crack down on these people.'
Author:  Sussex [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stretch bloody limos
Sussex wrote:
To help support licensing authorities and limo operators, the Department for Transport intends to publish a short guidance document, available in the Library section of www.instituteoflicensing.org

One would wish they would get their blinking fingers out and do it. :sad:
Author:  kermit2482 [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Humm Very interesting topic and read, however please dont believe everything you read, as im sure most of you are now aware. They're not all bad honestly :shock:
Author:  Sussex [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
kermit2482 wrote:
Humm Very interesting topic and read, however please dont believe everything you read, as im sure most of you are now aware. They're not all bad honestly :shock:

I very much doubt they are all iffy, but many are.

But the issue isn't really how many bad ones out there, although that's quite an important one, but more about when will this government sort out the mess and bring in proper rules so everyone, councils/VOSA and drivers, know what's what. [-o<
Author:  kermit2482 [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes indeed Sussex and i only wish we could give them a kick in the right direction, better life indeed for all of us then and hopefully get some cowboys out of each trade. In a perfect world Hey :roll:
Author:  Sussex [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
kermit2482 wrote:
Yes indeed Sussex and i only wish we could give them a kick in the right direction, better life indeed for all of us then and hopefully get some cowboys out of each trade. In a perfect world Hey :roll:

Whilst you there, how do you get around the new licensing laws in relation to the 'free' booze served on board.

My man, who knows liquor licensing laws back to front, is of the opinion drivers need a liquor license. :-k
Author:  kermit2482 [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tell em to bring there own mate. SIMPLE AS :wink:
Author:  kermit2482 [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
But of course if you have the time and money to do the 2 day college course plus have a secure storage place then you can get the said licence. Failing that you can also buy it perfectly legally from someone who has a liquor licence and so long as they are in your association and its receipted and booked out in the proper manner and recorded as such in your books with clients name then this again is fully legal. However you will find that some will exploit loop holes too.IE im sorry officer but the previous customers who bought there own must of left it there, also if we get stopped folks just tell em you have bought it, and a few others to mention but i aint got all night. Like i say were not all rogues in this business but there are some that will flout the rules that spoil it for the rest of us :roll:
Author:  Sussex [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
kermit2482 wrote:
But of course if you have the time and money to do the 2 day college course plus have a secure storage place then you can get the said licence.

I'm not on about the driver in this instance, more the vehicle.

If the vehicle offers booze as part of the package, then my man says it must be viewed as a premises under the new liquor act.

I suspect the number of limos with a liquor license is very low, if any. :shock:
Author:  Tulsablue [ Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:05 am ]
Post subject: 
And not just booze licence but they also need licence from Performing rights for dvd or video shows as well. Even if the dvd is just their own advert if it uses images (which may only be in the background) or music.
Author:  Paisley Buddie [ Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Good point there Mr Tulsa, I wonder how many limousine operators have PRS licences ?

I remember years ago going to a local hairdresser who got one for his shop because he had a radio playing in the background

Just out of interest, I had a look at your website & wondered what the discs in the windscreen (other the the Road Fund) where for ?
Author:  TDO [ Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Paisley Buddie wrote:
I remember years ago going to a local hairdresser who got one for his shop because he had a radio playing in the background



Then, of course, there was the Norwegian story a couple of years ago about taxi drivers needing one for their vehicle :roll:
Author:  Tulsablue [ Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Just out of interest, I had a look at your website & wondered what the discs in the windscreen (other the the Road Fund) where for ?


Hi Paisley Buddie, the other discs you can see are PSV operators licence (we are mainly coach operator using the smalleer vehicles as feeders etc.) and/or Airport security discs.
Author:  kermit2482 [ Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
SUSSEX WROTE.
I'm not on about the driver in this instance, more the vehicle.

If the vehicle offers booze as part of the package, then my man says it must be viewed as a premises under the new liquor act.

I suspect the number of limos with a liquor license is very low, if any.




Yes good point to which i shall look in to in due course, and as for limo ops with a liquor licence being low, then yes i suspect your right on that too, but its the same old story with grey licencing issues, and i can tell you that plymouth limo ops do have an off licence sales dept through the plymouth limo association and this would appear to be perfectly legal as its been running for over 2 years with no issues to my knowledge.

With regard to PRS licences then again you have a valid point, and in my opinion as you folks know its just another way of getting our hard earned cash out of us, and do admit to not having the said licence at the moment, however this is yet another thing that i will look in to and any advice as to how i go about getting one would be greatly appreciated. I thank you in advance. Kind regards :lol:
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