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 Post subject: Seatbelts
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:24 pm
Posts: 232
Asking for a driver. I got no clue either and u guys are quite savvy.

Private hire driver was caught on the way to a job by a camera showing no seatbelt being worn.

He understands that belts dont need to be worn when carrying paying passengers.

His passenger was not in the car yet.

Is he screwed?


I personally wear mine all the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Seatbelts
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 45416
Location: 1066 Country
Quote:
Private hire driver was caught on the way to a job by a camera showing no seatbelt being worn.

He understands that belts dont need to be worn when carrying paying passengers.

His passenger was not in the car yet.

Is he screwed?

Yes.

Just pay the fixed penalty and move on.

It's not an endorsable offence, so no points and no record on your license.

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 Post subject: Re: Seatbelts
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:56 pm
Posts: 1924
Sussex wrote:
Quote:
Private hire driver was caught on the way to a job by a camera showing no seatbelt being worn.

He understands that belts dont need to be worn when carrying paying passengers.

His passenger was not in the car yet.

Is he screwed?

Yes.

Just pay the fixed penalty and move on.

It's not an endorsable offence, so no points and no record on your license.



Extremely expensive if you challenge this.


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 Post subject: Re: Seatbelts
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 3:57 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
Quote:
Extremely expensive if you challenge this.

And pointless if they have got a picture of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Seatbelts
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:24 pm
Posts: 232
Cheers. He phoned up and photo not showing if anyone is sitting behind him.

I told him the score. Pay and walk away.

He is thinking of trying to wave it.

Rather him than me


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 Post subject: Re: Seatbelts
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:24 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
westgatelad wrote:
Cheers. He phoned up and photo not showing if anyone is sitting behind him.

I told him the score. Pay and walk away.

He is thinking of trying to wave it.

Rather him than me

But he would need to show a court the details of any booking, which would have to be issued via a bonafide operator.

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 Post subject: Re: Seatbelts
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:56 pm
Posts: 1924
westgatelad wrote:
Cheers. He phoned up and photo not showing if anyone is sitting behind him.

I told him the score. Pay and walk away.

He is thinking of trying to wave it.

Rather him than me



Pointless asking for advice and then ignoring it,asking for trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: Seatbelts
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 6:33 am
Posts: 5920
westgatelad wrote:
Cheers. He phoned up and photo not showing if anyone is sitting behind him.

I told him the score. Pay and walk away.

He is thinking of trying to wave it.

Rather him than me

The exemption for PHDs is pretty clear cut, if not the evidence in the photo:

Quote:
1. a licensed taxi while it is being used for seeking hire, or answering a call for hire, or carrying a passenger for hire, or

2. a private hire vehicle while it is being used to carry a passenger for hire.

The taxi exemption not quite so clear cut though, in my opinion. But not relevant here, so little point in going into it.

But what kind of camera was it that they use to enforce the seatbelt laws?


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 Post subject: Re: Seatbelts
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:36 pm
Posts: 1026
I received a ticket through the post a few years ago from North Wales police via their safety camera partnership, trouble was, I didn’t know whether I was on my way to the job or on my way back with the fare, being a Hackney, although I was outside of my licensing area, I was covered either way. I had to send a letter explaining why I believed I was exempt along with a copy of my vehicle’s licence and my licence. The reply, when it came, simply stated “The matter is now closed, you will receive no further correspondence regarding it”. Quite abrupt I thought ?


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 Post subject: Re: Seatbelts
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:14 pm 
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Posts: 5920
X-ray wrote:
although I was outside of my licensing area, I was covered either way

Well that's one of the things I think a prosecution lawyer could dispute if the case arose?

I mean, can you be 'seeking hire' if you're out-of-area? Or maybe if you're with a circuit you could argue that you're seeking hire even if you're out-of-area?

I do tend to wear my seatbelt, but there's often a blurred line about working and not-working. For example, if I get a job out-of-area, and go shopping at Tesco or Asda while I'm there, am I seeking hire?

Or if I'm socialising, can I say that I'm seeking hire because people could call me on my mobile anytime, and I might do the job, depending on the circumstances?

Who knows, and I doubt it's ever been litigated, but to me it doesn't seem clear cut, unlike the PH exemption.

In fact probably a bit like the 'always an HC' thing when it comes to insurance, the applicability of CCTV rules and dress codes, etc. Or Skippy's caravan. Don't think I'll go there 8-[


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 Post subject: Re: Seatbelts
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:24 pm
Posts: 232
Afaik he had dropped and was on the way back from his journey to the area he works.

He spoke to a lady on the phone who stated the camera that caught him shows clearly no passenger in front. No passengers middle or off side rear. The picture is unable to determine if he had a fare carrying passenger driver side rear.

I am a simple kind of bloke who will take the fine and be done with it and walk away. Less hassle imho.

He has my luck but I wouldn’t bother trying to get away with it personally.

But I’ve never not worn mine.



So what’s the law with say. A blood sample from one hospital to the next. The meter is on. The fare was booked through the office. Your customer is a box in the boot.
You are a private hire driver. Without your belt on.

Still a fine? Do they need to be human?

May as well know while I’m on the subject, I ain’t got a clue. :badgrin:


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 Post subject: Re: Seatbelts
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:56 pm
Posts: 1924
Exemption for private hire vehicle drivers only applies when they have a passenger in vehicle.


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 Post subject: Re: Seatbelts
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:16 pm
Posts: 162
Location: glasgow
in glasgow we dont have to wear belts except when outwith our licenced area,regardless of any passengers on board, or when carrying a package even within our licenced area

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 Post subject: Re: Seatbelts
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:36 pm
Posts: 1026
StuartW wrote:
X-ray wrote:
although I was outside of my licensing area, I was covered either way

Well that's one of the things I think a prosecution lawyer could dispute if the case arose?

I mean, can you be 'seeking hire' if you're out-of-area? Or maybe if you're with a circuit you could argue that you're seeking hire even if you're out-of-area?



I was exempt because I was answering a call for hire ( it was as my own return from a passenger I’d dropped off earlier in the day ) not because I was seeking hire, which would have been illegal outside of my licensed area.


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