Taxi Driver Online

UK cab trade debate and advice
It is currently Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:28 pm

All times are UTC - 1 hour [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 5:33 am
Posts: 7304
8-[

But if the Act was intended to apply to hackney carriages without horses then the word 'the' would have had replaced by something like 'any' (the coloured text in the square brackets).

The word 'the' seems to presuppose that horses are attached [-(

If the word had been 'any' then it would have assumed that horses might not be attached :wink:

TPCA 1847 wrote:
62 Penalties in case of carriages being unattended at places of public resort.

If the driver of any hackney carriage leave it in any street or at any place of public resort or entertainment, whether it be hired or not, without some one proper to take care of it, any constable may drive away such hackney carriage and deposit it, and the [any] horse or horses harnessed thereto, at some neighbouring livery stable or other place of safe custody; and such driver shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding [F74level 1 on the standard scale]for such offence; and in default of payment of the said penalty upon conviction, and of the expenses of taking and keeping the said hackney carriage and horse or horses, the same, together with the harness belonging thereto, or any of them, shall be sold by order of the justice before whom such conviction is made, and after deducting from the produce of such sale the amount of the said penalty, and of all costs and expenses, as well of the proceedings before such justice as of the taking, keeping, and sale of the said hackney carriage, and of the said horse or horses and harness, the surplus (if any) of the g.,aid produce shall be paid to the proprietor of such hackney carriage.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:30 pm
Posts: 47471
Location: 1066 Country
Back to the issue of self employed, or employed, or self employed with worker's status, I would say the vast majority of PH drivers are self employed with worker's status.

Also a significant majority of hackneys on circuits are self employed with worker's status, and the vast majority of journeymen on circuits are self employed with worker's status.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:30 pm
Posts: 47471
Location: 1066 Country
Just had a quick read of April’s PHTM and no comment in this issue, from either contributors, backing up their views that the Supreme Court decision will have little effect on the general taxi/PH trade.

A little disappointing to be honest.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:06 pm
Posts: 22822
Location: A City near Birmingham
Sussex wrote:
Back to the issue of self employed, or employed, or self employed with worker's status, I would say the vast majority of PH drivers are self employed with worker's status.

Also a significant majority of hackneys on circuits are self employed with worker's status, and the vast majority of journeymen on circuits are self employed with worker's status.


I bought my own cars, paid all my own bills/costs, sometimes rented a radio/PDA, got my own school runs

NEVER considered i was not 100% self employed

_________________
Freedom is never free


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:06 pm
Posts: 22822
Location: A City near Birmingham
Sussex wrote:
Just had a quick read of April’s PHTM and no comment in this issue, from either contributors, backing up their views that the Supreme Court decision will have little effect on the general taxi/PH trade.

A little disappointing to be honest.


for who?

are you happy someone with a badge can hire a car and compete with you for work after youve paid £25,000 to trade?

_________________
Freedom is never free


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:30 pm
Posts: 47471
Location: 1066 Country
Quote:
NEVER considered i was not 100% self employed

You can be self employed and still be eligible for the benefits associated with having 'worker's rights' status.

It's not an either/or situation.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:30 pm
Posts: 47471
Location: 1066 Country
wannabeeahack wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Just had a quick read of April’s PHTM and no comment in this issue, from either contributors, backing up their views that the Supreme Court decision will have little effect on the general taxi/PH trade.

A little disappointing to be honest.


for who?

are you happy someone with a badge can hire a car and compete with you for work after youve paid £25,000 to trade?

WTF are you on about?

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:58 pm
Posts: 3256
Location: Plymouth
Wannabe, Sussex is disappointed that it wasn't covered in PHTM, that's all.
:roll:

_________________
Chris The Fish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdlyi5mc ... re=related


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:06 pm
Posts: 22822
Location: A City near Birmingham
Sussex wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Just had a quick read of April’s PHTM and no comment in this issue, from either contributors, backing up their views that the Supreme Court decision will have little effect on the general taxi/PH trade.

A little disappointing to be honest.


for who?

are you happy someone with a badge can hire a car and compete with you for work after youve paid £25,000 to trade?

WTF are you on about?


well those "self employed" drivers just AINT self employed, they jump in hire/rental cars and drive friday/saturday nights creaming out of REAL self employed owners who do their own driving, or, as HMRC state:- "invest in equipment, decide charges and working times"...........they should ONLY be PAYE and not dodging tax/stamp in the cause of a ase making profit...

Or, direct off Gov.uk

Quote:
Someone is probably self-employed and shouldn’t be paid through PAYE if most of the following are true:

they’re in business for themselves, are responsible for the success or failure of their business and can make a loss or a profit
they can decide what work they do and when, where or how to do it
they can hire someone else to do the work
they’re responsible for fixing any unsatisfactory work in their own time
their employer agrees a fixed price for their work - it doesn’t depend on how long the job takes to finish

they use their own money to buy business assets, cover running costs, and provide tools and equipment for their work

they can work for more than one client

_________________
Freedom is never free


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:30 pm
Posts: 47471
Location: 1066 Country
Quote:
well those "self employed" drivers just AINT self employed, they jump in hire/rental cars and drive friday/saturday nights creaming out of REAL self employed owners who do their own driving, or, as HMRC state:- "invest in equipment, decide charges and working times"...........they should ONLY be PAYE and not dodging tax/stamp in the cause of a ase making profit...

Firstly that has sweet FA do to with what I said in that post.

Secondly part timers have been part of this trade for 100s of years, love em or hate em they aren't going away, and I suspect many of them would have been full time at some time, they just got a bit old.

And you are confusing issues, the issue isn't about part timers being PAYE, it's about all drivers receiving workers rights benefits from operators. Be they full time, part time, owners, journeymen, self employed, employed. Everyone.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:06 pm
Posts: 22822
Location: A City near Birmingham
Sussex wrote:
the issue isn't about part timers being PAYE, it's about all drivers receiving workers rights benefits from operators. Be they full time, part time, owners, journeymen, self employed, employed. Everyone.


the issue is operators using "self employment" to AVOID workers (who should be PAYE according to HMRC) receiving rights to bolster their profits

make them all PAYE with pensions, holiday pay and SSP and bank holiday pay and there will be far fewer cars on the road

_________________
Freedom is never free


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:06 pm
Posts: 22822
Location: A City near Birmingham
In my view theres is only PAYE/employed (where you get workers rights) and self-employed (where the risk and profit/loss is yours), anything else is a dodge

_________________
Freedom is never free


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:30 pm
Posts: 47471
Location: 1066 Country
wannabeeahack wrote:
In my view theres is only PAYE/employed (where you get workers rights) and self-employed (where the risk and profit/loss is yours), anything else is a dodge

Well thankfully the Supreme Court think otherwise.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 5:33 am
Posts: 7304
wannabeeahack wrote:
In my view theres is only PAYE/employed (where you get workers rights) and self-employed (where the risk and profit/loss is yours), anything else is a dodge

Hardly a dodge if it's provided by statute.

Incidentally, for anyone interested there's a Commons Library briefing paper on employment status, which looks like quite a good summary of the topic, and saves having to spend £50+ on a law book.

It's three years old now, so not quite up to date, but it mentions the Uber case a few times at the lower court level, so to the degree that the Supreme Court rubber-stamped the previous decisions then it's up to date enough.

It's 50 pages, though, so quite a slog, although the pages aren't the longest I've seen, and even the first couple of chapters provides a decent enough overview.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliam ... P-8045.pdf


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Self employed or not
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 5:33 am
Posts: 7304
Incidentally, was disappointed that this thread ground to halt earlier before someone got round to arguing that the 1847 Act could be construed as meaning that the horses on Blackpool promenade are 'employees' or 'workers' :D


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 1 hour [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group