Taxi Driver Online :: View topic - unmet demand survey

Should a Council be required to carry out an unmet demand survey into the requirement for WAV vehicles before adopting a policy that requires all firms in the Borough with 5 or more vehicles to provide a WAV?

grandad wrote:

Let me be the first to point out the stupidity of this provision.

An Operator (lets call him Grandad) has 10 cars on his system. To satisfy the requirement Grandad gets one WAV as cheaply as he can, second hand, high mileage, passes requires tests. Grandad plates the WAV, to keep costs down he insures it for himself only to drive. Grandad parks the WAV up, puts a cover over it and ignores it until it has to be re-plated.

People using wheelchairs call Grandads Taxis (or PH) because the LA have told them that the Grandad Company have a WAV. When they call the answer is "Do have the vehicle, don't have a Driver. Sorry, call someone else".

Net result, for the LA a box is ticked. Grandad has an un-needed expense. Wheelchair users still can't get a WAV.

This I assure you, is happening all round the Country already.

grandad wrote:

Under what authority do they think they can do this.?? What Law ??

This is a link to last nights licensing committee. The first part is regarding the fare review and the second part is the new policy, particularly the WAV bit. However there is an interesting bit from 59 minutes and 59 seconds regarding the community transport in the town and the 8,000 jobs they do per year without a license.

grandad wrote:

Under what authority do they think they can do this.?? What Law ??

MR T wrote:

grandad wrote:

Under what authority do they think they can do this.?? What Law ??

Councils have the ability to add any condition they wish, providing that that condition is a fair and reasonable one.

In my view the requirement to ensure an operator can offer WAV punters a service isn't unreasonable in the year 2021.

In my view the requirement to ensure an operator can offer WAV punters a service isn't unreasonable in the year 2021.

Thus making that operator uncompetitive in the market.

I rang the licensing officer on Friday and asked what sanctions would be used if we simply did not comply.

Author:	grandad [ Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:	unmet demand survey
Should a Council be required to carry out an unmet demand survey into the requirement for WAV vehicles before adopting a policy that requires all firms in the Borough with 5 or more vehicles to provide a WAV?

Author:	Sussex [ Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: unmet demand survey
grandad wrote: Should a Council be required to carry out an unmet demand survey into the requirement for WAV vehicles before adopting a policy that requires all firms in the Borough with 5 or more vehicles to provide a WAV? It's not really an unmet demand issue, it's more of an operator issue. They should however justify their reasons for the new policy, and that could be evidence from a survey and/or letters of complaint from disabled groups or individuals.

Author:	Chris the Fish [ Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: unmet demand survey
grandad wrote: Should a Council be required to carry out an unmet demand survey into the requirement for WAV vehicles before adopting a policy that requires all firms in the Borough with 5 or more vehicles to provide a WAV? Let me be the first to point out the stupidity of this provision. An Operator (lets call him Grandad) has 10 cars on his system. To satisfy the requirement Grandad gets one WAV as cheaply as he can, second hand, high mileage, passes requires tests. Grandad plates the WAV, to keep costs down he insures it for himself only to drive. Grandad parks the WAV up, puts a cover over it and ignores it until it has to be re-plated. People using wheelchairs call Grandads Taxis (or PH) because the LA have told them that the Grandad Company have a WAV. When they call the answer is "Do have the vehicle, don't have a Driver. Sorry, call someone else". Net result, for the LA a box is ticked. Grandad has an un-needed expense. Wheelchair users still can't get a WAV. This I assure you, is happening all round the Country already.

Author:	heathcote [ Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: unmet demand survey
Chris the Fish wrote: grandad wrote: Should a Council be required to carry out an unmet demand survey into the requirement for WAV vehicles before adopting a policy that requires all firms in the Borough with 5 or more vehicles to provide a WAV? Let me be the first to point out the stupidity of this provision. An Operator (lets call him Grandad) has 10 cars on his system. To satisfy the requirement Grandad gets one WAV as cheaply as he can, second hand, high mileage, passes requires tests. Grandad plates the WAV, to keep costs down he insures it for himself only to drive. Grandad parks the WAV up, puts a cover over it and ignores it until it has to be re-plated. People using wheelchairs call Grandads Taxis (or PH) because the LA have told them that the Grandad Company have a WAV. When they call the answer is "Do have the vehicle, don't have a Driver. Sorry, call someone else". Net result, for the LA a box is ticked. Grandad has an un-needed expense. Wheelchair users still can't get a WAV. This I assure you, is happening all round the Country already. One of the problems with obtaining a WAV vehicle is that they are mainly licensed for 5+ passengers, consequently most proprietors are then using the vehicle to ferry 5+ passengers and ignoring the wheelchair trade.

Author:	MR T [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: unmet demand survey
grandad wrote: Should a Council be required to carry out an unmet demand survey into the requirement for WAV vehicles before adopting a policy that requires all firms in the Borough with 5 or more vehicles to provide a WAV? Under what authority do they think they can do this.?? What Law ??

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Author:	grandad [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: unmet demand survey
MR T wrote: grandad wrote: Should a Council be required to carry out an unmet demand survey into the requirement for WAV vehicles before adopting a policy that requires all firms in the Borough with 5 or more vehicles to provide a WAV? Under what authority do they think they can do this.?? What Law ?? I have no irea but when the policy came out for consultation I asked on here if it was legal and the replies sugested that some Councils had a similar policy for both Hackney and Private hire. Obviously we are Private Hire.

Author:	grandad [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: unmet demand survey
This is a link to last nights licensing committee. The first part is regarding the fare review and the second part is the new policy, particularly the WAV bit. However there is an interesting bit from 59 minutes and 59 seconds regarding the community transport in the town and the 8,000 jobs they do per year without a license.

Author:	MR T [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: unmet demand survey
grandad wrote: This is a link to last nights licensing committee. The first part is regarding the fare review and the second part is the new policy, particularly the WAV bit. However there is an interesting bit from 59 minutes and 59 seconds regarding the community transport in the town and the 8,000 jobs they do per year without a license. Councils often implement rules or conditions that are illegal and then have to backtrack when challenged.......ask Mr button https://swarb.co.uk/regina-v-liverpool- ... n-ca-1972/ ........ R v Liverpool City Council ex parte Curzon Ltd (Kelly)

Author:	Sussex [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: unmet demand survey
MR T wrote: grandad wrote: Should a Council be required to carry out an unmet demand survey into the requirement for WAV vehicles before adopting a policy that requires all firms in the Borough with 5 or more vehicles to provide a WAV? Under what authority do they think they can do this.?? What Law ?? Councils have the ability to add any condition they wish, providing that that condition is a fair and reasonable one. In my view the requirement to ensure an operator can offer WAV punters a service isn't unreasonable in the year 2021.

Author:	MR T [ Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: unmet demand survey
Sussex wrote: MR T wrote: grandad wrote: Should a Council be required to carry out an unmet demand survey into the requirement for WAV vehicles before adopting a policy that requires all firms in the Borough with 5 or more vehicles to provide a WAV? Under what authority do they think they can do this.?? What Law ?? Councils have the ability to add any condition they wish, providing that that condition is a fair and reasonable one. In my view the requirement to ensure an operator can offer WAV punters a service isn't unreasonable in the year 2021. And you drive ??

Author:	Sussex [ Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: unmet demand survey
Quote: And you drive ?? A saloon. However I don't vote Labour but am aware they are a clueless bunch of lefty numpties.

Author:	grandad [ Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: unmet demand survey
Sussex wrote: In my view the requirement to ensure an operator can offer WAV punters a service isn't unreasonable in the year 2021. Thus making that operator uncompetitive in the market. I run a business not a charity. it makes absolutely no business sense for us to borrow a very large sum of money to provide a vehicle with no proven demand for it. In fact I have figures that suggest that there is virtually no demand for such a vehicle in that we put on on a few years ago and at the time I actually had to persuade the Council to let me put it on. We had that vehicle for 3 years and in that time we had no more than 5 wheelchair users and it was not safe for the driver to clamp one of them in because as you were kneeling down to attach the clamps the passenger was constantly hitting you on the head. Apart from the commercial suicide of actually buying one of these vehicles, I doubt any one of the directors could actually get the finance to allow the purchase and the finance companies all insist on a named person on the finance agreements and not the business.

Author:	grandad [ Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: unmet demand survey
I rang the licensing officer on Friday and asked what sanctions would be used if we simply did not comply. I would like to say that I was surprised by the reply but actually I wasn't. The answer was that she had no idea. So I pointed out how pathetic it was to introduce a policy without having any idea what sanctions were in place. So eventually she said that "I suppose eventually it would mean reviewing our operators license with a view to removing it." My reply was excellent so now you will also have 14 more people out of work and an even smaller fleet of vehicles on the road having closed the biggest fleet in the town. Well at least the other owner drivers would be happy.

Author:	Sussex [ Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: unmet demand survey
Quote: Thus making that operator uncompetitive in the market. But the regulation wont just apply to that one operator. And a smaller WAV costs no more than a Superb/Mondeo.

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Author:	Sussex [ Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: unmet demand survey
Quote: I rang the licensing officer on Friday and asked what sanctions would be used if we simply did not comply. Did you really need to ring them? Surely the answer will be the same no matter what rule a driver/owner/operator doesn't comply with.