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Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=37660		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  BladeS1 [ Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:54 am ]
Post subject:  Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
Hi,

After some advice please so my brother has been referred to the sub committee licence hearing for non declaration of a CU08 offence driving whilst use of a mobile communication device following a routine DVLA driver licence check. He should have declared the 3 points and £72 fine. His only excuse being it was a stressful time during pandemic and it wasn’t an intentional non declaration he was waiting for the office to open and then forgot about it. It isn’t a very good excuse but that’s the truth. He has 1 historic same offence CU08 from 2017 which he did declare and expired before these points.

The letter indicates that they are taking a tough stand on use of mobiles phones whilst driving. It states Where an applicant has a conviction for using a held‐hand mobile telephone or a hand‐held device whilst driving, a licence will not be granted until at least five years have elapsed since the conviction or completion of any sentence or driving ban imposed, whichever is the later.

So as you will see from the previous thread https://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=35556 he was in the rail station taxi rank queue with engine off looking at something on his phone. Taxi in front has moved, he’s moved one car length forward with mobile in one hand then switched engine off. Police officer in marked police car that patrols station has come over and given him the ticket. It went to court and rather than proceed any further agreed the 3 points and £72 fine. The hearing letter states he was given only 3 penalty points on his licence for this latest offence, the current normal penalty is £200 fine and 6 points. Officer do not have any information as to the fine imposed of why the Court took a lenient view on the points.

I’m helping him write a letter to explain the situation. He’s worried that his licence will be suspended or revoked. How likely is this?

Is there any advice anyone can offer?

During the pandemic he’s switched from a hackney taxi driver to private as couldn’t afford to maintain hackney taxi or keep train station taxi badge. He hasn’t had any other complaints about his driving or anything else.

CU08 isn’t listed in the section for mandatory referral to licensing sub committee
hearing but I suppose it’s covered in the discretion of chief licence officer on what is referred.
Author:  MR T [ Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
What licence did he have when he committed the offence
Author:  Sussex [ Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
My recollection is that he wasn’t convicted of driving a vehicle using a mobile phone, he was convicted of careless driving.

So any disciplinary matters should be based on that.

That’s also why the conviction code doesn’t match.

If the conviction code doesn’t match the council’s enforcement procedures then you will have to ask them why.
Author:  BladeS1 [ Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
Hi Sussex,

Hope you are well.

That’s a really good point I completely missed that the offence was not in proper control of the vehicle rather than using mobile phone but it’s bundled under the same CU80 offence code. I suppose that will help on the below as he’s not actually been convicted for use of mobile while driving. They’ve assumed it’s the use of mobile phone whilst driving.

Here is some more info on the code
https://www.licencebureau.co.uk/cu80-dr ... full-view/

We’ve put together a supporting letter but he’s wondering how serious the sub committee are on these matters especially as they’ve called out statutory guidance by DFT for local licensing authorities from 2020 not to issue licence to anyone for the offence for at least 5 years after the conviction date:

Licensing Officers draw the attention of Members to the new Statutory Guidance issued by the Department for Transport in 2020 for Local Licensing Authorities. Members should pay due regard to all the Guidance but in particular the following recommendations and guidance in relation to this review. It should be noted that Using a Mobile phone has been singled out by the Guidance and is covered separately and not under the Motoring.

The also considered how serious the DFT have taken this offence and stated an applicant for a licence should not be granted a licence for at least 5 years after the conviction.

Does anyone know anyone is a similar situation?

Thanks

Nikki
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
Send your letter in reminding them about the fact that the conviction was for driving without due care and attention, which when dealt with by a fixed penalty is £100 and 3 points, as opposed to using a mobile when driving offence which when dealt with by a fixed penalty is £200 and 6 points.

Also remind them of the circumstances in that your brother was merely fiddling around with his phone whilst moving up the rank. So yes an offence was committed and he pleaded guilty at court, but at no time was he driving dangerously or putting anyone in physical danger.

They will also be miffed off that he didn't report the offence at the time.

I don't know if he did, but if he did it wouldn't surprise me if the letter got lost within the council during the pandemic, or the phone call and/or email got lost. Wouldn't surprise me at all.

If he didn't then apologise for it. For a number of reasons you can think of his mind was on other things and he merely forgot.

People do forget things.
Author:  BladeS1 [ Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
Thanks Sussex we have sent an email to the licence office to query the referral as they say it is specifically for driving
The record returned a current driving offence of Driving whist using a mobile communication device (CU80) Just waiting to hear back now.

As you quite rightly put people do forget things and we were in the middle of the pandemic during that tile he’s given up his train station permit and changed from hackney to a private hire taxi driver overall a very stressful time. Hopefully with the mitigating factors they won’t revoke or suspend his licence that’s his worst case scenario.
Author:  BladeS1 [ Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
Hi Sussex,

Licence office got back to us to say thats fine will let the members know but will need to explain why the police thought Driver was not in proper control.
The FPN was issued for driving whilst using mobile phone. There is no reference to any impairment to driving in the police report. Literally just said seen him viewing video on phone and moving one car length and issued FPN. When he plead not guilty and it was referred to court the offence changed to driver not in proper control. Do I go into this level of detail. Or just say driving was in proper control, not driving dangerously or putting anyone in physical danger. Reluctant to add the police report in as it states he was confrontational because he told them I see you everyday is this necessary (also added it is a busy area for public when that is not the case). Dont want this to go against him in the fit and proper aspect of the hearing.

Thanks

Nikki
Author:  Sussex [ Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
Quote:
The FPN was issued for driving whilst using mobile phone.

Don't want to be pedantic but are you sure? Or is that the one that was withdrawn and he was then summoned for driving without due care and attention.

A court cannot give less than 6 points for driving whilst using a mobile phone. That number of points has been fixed by parliament. He got 3 points so it is impossible for him to have been convicted of that offense.

The use of the phone was an aggravating factor, it was not the charge.
Author:  Sussex [ Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
Quote:
Do I go into this level of detail

You tell them that he wasn't convicted of driving whilst using a mobile phone which carries a 6 point penalty, he was convicted of careless driving, which on this occasion carried a 3 point penalty.

Defo go into detail about the actual incident as that's what the council wants to know about. He was watching a video at the same time he was moving up the rank at 2 miles an hour.

Also remind the council that he is very sorry for forgetting to tell the council straight away but during the pandemic etc etc etc.
Author:  Sussex [ Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
Quote:
Reluctant to add the police report in as it states he was confrontational because he told them I see you everyday is this necessary

Don't send what you don't need to.
Author:  BladeS1 [ Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
On the police report it said he was being reported for offence of driving whilst using a mobile phone. Then when he returned the SJP form he plead not guilty and when asked to attend court offence changed to driver not in proper control.

We will be careful with what we put. Taxi chairman is going with him but laid it on thick apparently licensing are being quite harsh recently so got us worried.

Thank you for all your help. Fingers crossed it goes ok. I’ll keep you posted.
Author:  Sussex [ Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
The police can put what they want where they want, but the fact is he wasn’t charged with the offence they wanted to charge him with because the High Court had set a legal precedent which means the facts on the police sheet couldn’t lead to a charge of driving whilst using a mobile phone.

Hence the change of charge to the lesser offence.
Author:  edders23 [ Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
When he goes before the committee tell him to act humble and apologetic it feeds the egos of the councillors and hopefully will garner just a warning not to do it again rather than any more severe punishment which personally I don't think is justified
Author:  StuartW [ Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Licence sub committee hearing for use of mobile phone
I think 'kiss ass' is the phrase Edders is looking for :shock:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... h/kiss-ass
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