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 Post subject: No Insurance
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2022 11:59 pm 
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Hi all, need help/advice please...

A couple of weeks ago, I was hit from behind while stationary in the Company Hackney I was driving while my own taxi was off the road. It was quite a shunt, the car is almost definitely going to be written off, I suffered a whiplash injury and a small cut but fortunately walked away. There is no issue over where the fault lies.
The police officer asked me under caution what the purpose of my journey was, I told him it was work and I was on my way to a contracted pick up.
At this point he informed me that I was not insured and that he was reporting me for no insurance!
This was all quite a shock to me. It was a company vehicle that I was in essence "renting" on a 60/40 split. The understanding being a long established one in these parts, company provides car, insurance, licenses, fuel, maintenance etc for 60% of the earnings, driver gets 40% and no responsibility for any of the running costs.
So it turns out the car is insured, but on a domestic policy not hire and reward. I did my due diligence at the outset. I insisted on seeing the policy/s of any and every car I was expected to drive before I would drive it. I insisted on it as I knew the consequences of getting it wrong. I was duly shown policies with my name on it, or so I thought at the time. In actual fact I was shown a single sheet document appendix style, with my name, vehicle reg and policy number as issued by the insurer, I never saw the actual policy!
In relation to this vehicle, I was sent a copy of the document November 17th last year which I still have. Interestingly the vehicle was re plated in March of this year and the policy number was supplied to the local licensing authority for scrutiny and obviously failed to raise any red flags as a new plate was issued.

So two weeks on and I have still not been charged with any offence (The officer said he believed I had no knowledge of this issue), and following various advice, I have done nothing other than wait and see how this plays out. It has been suggested that I might not be getting charged, but I don't see how I would not. I have proudly held a clean license for many years now and this has royally [edited by admin] me off, that through no fault of mine, it is in jeopardy along with my career.

Please volunteer your opinions, why haven't I been charged yet? how does this play out?


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 Post subject: Re: No Insurance
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 10:10 am 
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Id have thought that a Licensed Taxi wouldnt be allowed to run or operate on any other type of Insurance policy other than for Hire or Reward which most likely includes Social and Domestic....it's all comes under one Taxi insurance policy, and if you were named on that policy then it would have to be as H&R and Social and domestic, either that or you would not be on it all, you cant divide one policy into two distinctly seperate parts :Eg H&R then seperately as Social and Domestic as that would be two different Inurance policies on one vehicle and that would be illegal.

So It's Either you were completely covered for H&R as well as S&D or you had no cover of any kind.....and seeing as the Police stated you only had S&D cover then it implies that they made a mistake and that you most likely had full H&R and S&D cover.


Be interesting to read the views of others on this one but maybe the reason for not being charged is that you did not do anything wrong and the cover was good.....either that or the police are playing catch up.


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 Post subject: Re: No Insurance
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 11:39 am 
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bloodnock wrote:
Id have thought that a Licensed Taxi wouldnt be allowed to run or operate on any other type of Insurance policy other than for Hire or Reward which most likely includes Social and Domestic....it's all comes under one Taxi insurance policy, and if you were named on that policy then it would have to be as H&R and Social and domestic, either that or you would not be on it all, you cant divide one policy into two distinctly seperate parts :Eg H&R then seperately as Social and Domestic as that would be two different Inurance policies on one vehicle and that would be illegal.

So It's Either you were completely covered for H&R as well as S&D or you had no cover of any kind.....and seeing as the Police stated you only had S&D cover then it implies that they made a mistake and that you most likely had full H&R and S&D cover.


Be interesting to read the views of others on this one but maybe the reason for not being charged is that you did not do anything wrong and the cover was good.....either that or the police are playing catch up.
There is nothing to stop someone insuring the vehicles for hire and reward and then once they have the documentation, they can cancel that policy and just take out a SDP policy.

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 Post subject: Re: No Insurance
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 11:45 am 
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I have a speculative view on what has gone on and how this might play out....
1) The owner, a non-dom foreign national, is playing fast and loose with us all, has insured the fleet as individual cars on social domestic and pleasure policies saving himself around 1500 per car. This way when I asked for proof he can show me anything and everything as long as I do not see the actual policy.
2) Possibly the local licensing authority are complicit in this as they a) obviously have not checked the policy and b) duty of care etc. I suspect if this is the case, it will be easily brushed aside in the current post pandemic climate.
3) The Operator will also be caught in this as "The responsible person".

I find it difficult to believe that myself or the operator will be severely punished and the licensing authority will not....
I suspect the police may be interested in going after the owner on Insurance fraud related charges but even so I struggle to reason in that case, why they do not charge me in order to get to him and also why delay if they believe the entire fleet is operating illegally?

For my part, if found guilty of no insurance, even if I walk away penalty free, will show on my record and will cost me dearly at every renewal. That means I am suing this company and just about everyone associated with the process.

I must repeat, this is purely speculative on my part, but I am struggling to understand the inaction here.

Thoughts please


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 Post subject: Re: No Insurance
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:21 pm 
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grandad wrote:
bloodnock wrote:
Id have thought that a Licensed Taxi wouldnt be allowed to run or operate on any other type of Insurance policy other than for Hire or Reward which most likely includes Social and Domestic....it's all comes under one Taxi insurance policy, and if you were named on that policy then it would have to be as H&R and Social and domestic, either that or you would not be on it all, you cant divide one policy into two distinctly seperate parts :Eg H&R then seperately as Social and Domestic as that would be two different Inurance policies on one vehicle and that would be illegal.

So It's Either you were completely covered for H&R as well as S&D or you had no cover of any kind.....and seeing as the Police stated you only had S&D cover then it implies that they made a mistake and that you most likely had full H&R and S&D cover.


Be interesting to read the views of others on this one but maybe the reason for not being charged is that you did not do anything wrong and the cover was good.....either that or the police are playing catch up.
There is nothing to stop someone insuring the vehicles for hire and reward and then once they have the documentation, they can cancel that policy and just take out a SDP policy.


But in doing so it would have to stop acting as a licensed Taxi.


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 Post subject: Re: No Insurance
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 8:37 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
Quote:
Please volunteer your opinions, why haven't I been charged yet? how does this play out?

Rule number one is a taxi is always a taxi, so it should also have a taxi level of insurance.

Your council simply cannot relicense a taxi with normal levels of insurance, but of course, an owner can cancel or not pay the insurance direct debits.

The reason you haven't been charged yet is that the system runs at a snail's pace.

How this plays out is a very interesting question.

If you are sent a charge, you must consider carefully what you do.

What I would do is accept the charge, as you were in a vehicle uninsured. However, I would ask the court to consider your 'special reasons', in that;

you were driving in the course of your employment and can demonstrate that your employer (in your case the owner) was responsible for insuring you, and additionally, that you believed that there was proper cover in place then you may well have a legitimate defence.

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 Post subject: Re: No Insurance
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 8:43 pm 
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Quote:
I find it difficult to believe that myself or the operator will be severely punished and the licensing authority will not....

All three of you appear to have been the victim of fraud, but you and the operator are the ones the police are looking at. It could be just you.

The council really can't do much against you or the operator as they have been mugged as well.

I think both you and the operator really need some professional legal advice, but the special reasons defense is the one I would pursue should a charge be forthcoming.

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 Post subject: Re: No Insurance
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:23 pm 
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I told him it was work and I was on my way to a contracted No one in cab

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 Post subject: Re: No Insurance
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:34 pm 
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MR T wrote:
I told him it was work and I was on my way to a contracted No one in cab

That did cross my mind, but I'm not sure how well that would pan out.

If 'going to and from work' was on the insurance, as well as domestic and pleasure, then a defense could be made that he was going to work.

But that wasn't mentioned in the opening post.

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 Post subject: Re: No Insurance
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 10:45 pm 
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bloodnock wrote:
grandad wrote:
bloodnock wrote:
Id have thought that a Licensed Taxi wouldnt be allowed to run or operate on any other type of Insurance policy other than for Hire or Reward which most likely includes Social and Domestic....it's all comes under one Taxi insurance policy, and if you were named on that policy then it would have to be as H&R and Social and domestic, either that or you would not be on it all, you cant divide one policy into two distinctly seperate parts :Eg H&R then seperately as Social and Domestic as that would be two different Inurance policies on one vehicle and that would be illegal.

So It's Either you were completely covered for H&R as well as S&D or you had no cover of any kind.....and seeing as the Police stated you only had S&D cover then it implies that they made a mistake and that you most likely had full H&R and S&D cover.


Be interesting to read the views of others on this one but maybe the reason for not being charged is that you did not do anything wrong and the cover was good.....either that or the police are playing catch up.
There is nothing to stop someone insuring the vehicles for hire and reward and then once they have the documentation, they can cancel that policy and just take out a SDP policy.


But in doing so it would have to stop acting as a licensed Taxi.
I think that is part of the issue here. The company has SDP insurance for their licensed vehicles and they have now been caught with their pants down. IF it were not for this accident it may never have come to light. I wonder how many years it has been going on.
There is another problem for some drivers. cars are bought on finance and one of the stipulations on the finance agreement is that the car can't be used as at taxi or private hire but who checks it out until there is an accident. I know of a driver here who has just done this.

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 Post subject: Re: No Insurance
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 9:21 am 
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If a taxi driver/owner changes their insurance soon after they take out the policy, then IMO, there is a duty, moral and legal, for that insurance company to inform the licensing authority.

I know down here all the brokers would do that.

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 Post subject: Re: No Insurance
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 11:54 am 
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Sussex wrote:
If a taxi driver/owner changes their insurance soon after they take out the policy, then IMO, there is a duty, moral and legal, for that insurance company to inform the licensing authority.

I know down here all the brokers would do that.

What if they cancel the insurance taken out through broker A and then take out insurance through broker B?

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 Post subject: Re: No Insurance
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 1:07 pm 
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The insurance cover note that the driver/owner supplied to the council is no longer valid, so broker A should inform the council.

The council should be prosecuting the owner.

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 Post subject: Re: No Insurance
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 7:12 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
MR T wrote:
I told him it was work and I was on my way to a contracted No one in cab

That did cross my mind, but I'm not sure how well that would pan out.

If 'going to and from work' was on the insurance, as well as domestic and pleasure, then a defense could be made that he was going to work.

But that wasn't mentioned in the opening post.



I was at work, merely between jobs hence empty


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 Post subject: Re: No Insurance
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 8:29 pm 
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Just to clarify my previous advice.

If charged or offered a fixed penalty I would seek professional legal advice.

I'm very confident that advice would be to plead guilty and use the special reason I highlighted as the defense to the charge.

But best get a professional to confirm that.

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