Taxi Driver Online

Mr Green badge cabby is of the opinion that in the last two decades the London Cab trade was never against the separate licensing of London minicabs. I assume this to mean that the majority of the London hackney carriage trade "was" opposed to separate licensing of minicabs, prior to this period?

This thread is for anyone who has an opinion on the topic heading and in particular for GBC to provide evidence supporting his position that the London Cab trade did not oppose the separate licensing of minicabs.

It is my contention that GBC is in self-denial of the facts but any London Cab driver past or present is quite welcome to offer evidence supporting Mr GBC's position. Anyone involved in any of the London Taxi organisations are welcome to post any literature from any period, appertaining to the debate which is about to take place.

I do not make any claim to being an expert on the London Cab Trade but the evidence I offer in support of my claim that GBC is in self-denial will be backed up with factual evidence. I expect nothing less from anyone else who makes a statement of fact?

I start the debate by reminding everyone what Alan Fisher wrote in Call sign in January 1999 when he said the separate licensing of minicabs was "unthinkable". He implied that such an event was unparalleled and likened it to an incident that occurred in the days of Oliver Cromwell back in the 17th century. That is how important the seperate licensing of minicabs was seen by the London Cab trade. Perhaps GBC will say Mr Fisher and Callsign were not representative of the London Cab trade back in 1999 but the evidence is for you to decide?
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Alan Fisher Editor Call sign January 1999

http://www.dac-callsign.com/99/Jan99/page2.html

So endeth another year, one that to me seemed to have just started! But no doubt, I felt exactly the same this time last year. However, I can’t help wondering just how I will be feeling this time next year? The advent of the unthinkable will be almost upon us, "the imminent licensing of London Private Hire".

It is probably fair to say that the last time an event as big as this occurred in our trade was when Oliver Cromwell’s ‘heavy mob’ rounded up the Thames Lightermen hinting that he preferred horse drawn cabs and that they (the Lightermen) wouldn’t kick up a storm - would they?

Twelve months from now, whoever is in this seat will be wondering exactly what the next twelve months holds in store. The licensing of the operators will be around the corner followed by the drivers / vehicles - although I suspect that will not follow on quite as quickly as seemed likely not too long ago.
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I think the Bin has a comment from the House of Lords/Parliament (not sure which one), where a speaker mentions that the black cab trade didn't want PH licensing.

I think they didn't want anything licensed bar taxis. Which is fair enough in a perfect taxi world, but we live in this real one.

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IDFIMH

As for Call-sign and minicabs, the funny thing is that the owners of Call-sign Dial-a-Cab work with the London PH trade more than anyone else.

Basically it works out that all the pukka work goes to the LPH trade, and all the local work to the taxi trade. And this is a firm that's meant to be owned by the drivers.

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IDFIMH

From the Editors desk of Mr Alan Fisher, Cabcall October 1999. A dire warning that the licesning of minicabs could be the biggest threat ever to the livelhood of the London Taxi Trade?
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If, as expected, the licensing process for private hire begins as of Monday January 3rd 2000, then we are just over twelve weeks away "from what could be the biggest threat ever to the livelihood of licensed taxi drivers in London".

http://www.dac-callsign.com/99/Oct99/page3.html

Regards

JD

Alan Fisher February 1998 Editor Callsign.

Mr Fisher informs us that Brian Rice through JRTA, the Taxi Board and privately, had talks with Sir George Young, Glenda Jackson and Linda Perham. Although Mr Fisher didn’t know what was said at any of the meetings, he did know that Sir George Young hadn't had a change of heart over implementing the bill.

We can assume Mr Rice didn't have these meetings of minds in order to congratulate the MP's on their sterling work in implementing the London P/H bill. Shall we then consider Mr Rice motives for the talks? Could it be that Mr Rice tried to pursuade Mr Young to drop the Bill? I leave you to ponder that question.
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I make no apologies for repeating myself this month because I am somewhat concerned about possible developments that may take place this year. By the time you read this, Sir George Young’s second reading on the regulating of minicabs (23rd Jan) will have passed through the House and be ever closer to the statute books.

I know that Brian Rice - through JRTA, the Taxi Board and privately, has now had talks with Sir George, Glenda Jackson and Linda Perham and although I don’t know what was said at any of the meetings, I do know that Sir George hasn’t had a change of heart. So from this side of the desk, it looks a though sometime in late ’98 or early ’99, London will join the rest of the country in having a two tiered cab service - ourselves and licensed private hire.

Of course, we all know that a two tier system will really be a three tier system because the touts won’t just pack their bags and go. So where will we be when what currently seems inevitable, actually arrives?

Well, for the first few months, nothing will noticeably change. After that, we (the licensed taxi trade) will be continually criticised by our London evening paper for bad service while prospective passengers will be informed by the same source that minicabs are really licensed private hire who now have the same degree of respectability as taxi’s. But the ES will also add one more thing. Licensed private hire won’t refuse you because they are going home or because you are going somewhere they don’t fancy. Neither will the old chestnut - and our saviour for so long - that they drive beaten up old rust heaps and have no insurance apply any more except to the non-existent third tier.

Then, as we head into the new millennium, the shout will go out to license the private hire sector to respond to street hails. And make no mistake about it. London is one of the most important capital cities in the world and it is heading ever more quickly towards becoming the centre of the Universe. And, if we cannot provide a taxi service that the public need then they will go elsewhere - and can you blame them?

So what is to be done? Day men tell me that it is still relatively quiet while night men can’t believe how busy it is for this time of year. But I have been out and about on Call Sign

business during day time hours and there are many times when there are very few cabs available. To turn around, shrug your shoulders and say that it is busy, just isn’t good enough. While passengers expect to wait slightly longer during busy periods - just as you would expect to queue for longer in the bank at lunchtime - they still expect to catch a cab within a reasonable time.

http://www.dac-callsign.com/98/Feb98/page3.html

Alan Fisher, Editor

The 1994 select committee on the regulation of minicabs overwhelmingly advocated their licensing and cited passenger safety as one of the main reasons for regulation....... but did the London Taxi trade agree?
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The committee said.......

It recommended regulation of minicabs ("or private hire vehicles" - PHVs) in London, saying: "We therefore recommend that the proposed new legislation should provide for all PHVs to be brought within the scope of the regulatory system in London....". The Committee commented: "The case for regulation is a pragmatic one: the need to protect passengers against the small minority of unscrupulous drivers and operators who, regrettably, flourish in this as in most other trades".

GBC has been in self-denial for a long time, Its his age you know
Can a licenced mini cab now sit on a rank or even pick up from one????
If so will the black cabs have the same problem as one of the members on here where the punter walks passed them and gets into a saloon.
If they are licenced I think that they can, and should.
It wont be long before the PCO wakes up and decides that the black cabs have had there day, as they cannot carry an electric wheel chair they don't conform to modern safety standards and cost a fortune to run.
So in a nutshell the PCO and RED KEN have had there way far to long, and the bubble is slowly bursting.HANG THEM HIGH I SAY

I am afraid JD that is immaterial what London cabies think, the decision rests with those who are responsible for the licensing of road users and their vehicles - that this entails collection of duty and other fees, the decision would be as a result of agreement between several government departments who between them are resposible for the effective administation of the road transport system.

Regards,
Jeff

The way I see it through my 'rose tinted specs' is that it suited the aims of the London black cab trade to have people raped by un-licensed drivers.

Can't really add to that.

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IDFIMH

Just a reminder 4 GBC when he returns from Holiday.

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http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/vie ... hp?p=41538
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This should be fun

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stressed controller!!!

I posed this question in this debate "were london cab drivers against the seperate licensing" of London minicabs?

GBC is of the opinion that the London cab trade were never against seperate licensing. It is my contention that London Wanted a one tier system based on the existing framework which was in place at the time. Namely the London knowledge.

To support my case I have enlisted the help of Mr Geoffrey Trotter ex secretary of the London Taxi Board. His evidence is published below in the form of a letter he sent to the Times newspaper in 1992 stating The LTB proposed a leveling up of agreed single set of standards over a limited time scale. In other words a single tier licesning system
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The Times

September 18, 1992, Friday


SECTION: Features

LENGTH: 217 words

HEADLINE: Taxis and minicabs

BODY:
From Mr Geoffrey Trotter

Sir, The conflict in London between taxis and minicabs (Saturday Review, September 5) cannot be settled on the streets.

Cab drivers are rightly incensed. Taxis must conform to the rigorous standards laid down by the police, but any ordinary citizen can set up in business by using the family car as a minicab. Minicabs now outnumber taxis by two to one; if nothing is done, London's world-famous black cab service will be in jeopardy.

We propose a single-tier licensing system, with all vehicles and drivers wishing to provide a taxi service in the capital having to conform to a single set of standards over a given time-scale. This would involve a levelling up to agreed standards which would be enforced by the Public Carriage Office, ensuring safer, more efficient personal public transport in London.

The minister responsible at the Department of Transport, Mr Steven Norris, is currently considering evidence from a working party which did at least bring both sides together for the first time. There are now clear indications that there is sufficient common ground between the leaders of the two trades to try and solve this problem once and for all.

Yours faithfully,

GEOFFREY TROTTER

(Chairman),

London Taxi Board,

1-3 Brixton Road, SW9.

How many threads are running on this one? Can you keep it simple under one banner, its like turning into an Edinburgh topic.

Your memory seems to be good, so you will recall that this started over my view that people claimedThe London Taxi trade opposed any form of licensing of Minicabs Now, in the greatest tradition of Taxi forums its changed shape to The London Taxi trade opposed a two tier sysytem of licensing of minicabs which differs greatly from my original point that licensing was opposed outright.




The London Taxi Board despite its name has nothing to do with London taxi drivers.

Its made up from LTI representatives, LMCPA members, Radio operators, and anyone else that would benefit from drivers hard earned cash.

There are NO drivers rep's on the LTB, mearly people who want more and more drivers to buy or rent their Taxi's, or pay subscriptions to their circuits.

In fact to say its defunct is an under statement and a half.

Ok you tell me which drivers organisations responded to the 1994 Transport select committee? Are you trying to say the London Taxi trade weren't represented? The three that stood out and who all sang from the same hymn sheet were the LTDA, LTB and the T&G and none of them wanted seperate licensing.

Did Harry Feigen represent of the views of the Trade and his organisation when he said this.
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The Times (London)

March 20 1989, Monday

HEADLINE: London taxi drivers want to retain test

BYLINE: DAVID SAPSTED

London's 15,000 black-taxi drivers are preparing for battle with the Government over proposals which could lead to licensed minicabs plying for business on the capital's increasingly-choked streets.

The licensing proposals will be contained in a Green Paper being prepared by a Department of Transport review group headed by Mr Michael Portillo, Minister of State for Transport.

The consultation document will be primarily concerned with the liberalization of the licensing system in the provinces by ending local authority powers to limit the number of taxis. However, it will also put forward the first, tentative proposals for licensing minicabs in the Metropolitan Police area.

The purpose is to bring some control to the minicab business in the capital and, particularly, to enable checks to be kept on drivers to ensure that rapists and other criminals are not given free rein.

But at stake for London's black-cab drivers is the system known as 'The Knowledge', the examination which tests the cabbies' know-how of the capital's complex of streets.

Mr Harry Feigen, of the Licensed Taxi Drivers' Association, said yesterday.''The Government is thinking about licensing minicabs but we are arguing that this is both unnecessary and undesirable'.
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Can you tell me what "unnecessary" and "undesirable" mean?

Regards

JD