Taxi Driver Online

UK cab trade debate and advice
It is currently Thu Jul 18, 2024 10:00 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 92 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 54484
Location: 1066 Country
I’m not sure Wardy is saying the act says you must return, his reading of a small part of a sentence in the act is that drivers can not accept work outside of their licensing area.

As I have previously said, if Mr Wardy’s suggestion had any merit I’m certain it would have been argued in the courts over the last 47 years, and even if those arguments led to his view being accepted (in my view no chance) I have no doubt the government would almost immediately change the law.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:47 pm
Posts: 19467
Location: Stamford Britains prettiest town till SKDC ruined it
Quote:
Private hire vehicles: sub-contracting
In the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, after section 55 insert—
“55ASub-contracting by operators
(1)A person licensed under section 55 who has in a controlled district accepted a booking for a private hire vehicle may arrange for another person to provide a vehicle to carry out the booking if—
(a)the other person is licensed under section 55 in respect of the same controlled district and the sub-contracted booking is accepted in that district;

(b)the other person is licensed under section 55 in respect of another controlled district and the sub-contracted booking is accepted in that district;
(c)the other person is a London PHV operator and the sub-contracted booking is accepted at an operating centre in London; or
(d)the other person accepts the sub-contracted booking in Scotland.
(2)It is immaterial for the purposes of subsection (1) whether or not sub-contracting is permitted by the contract between the person licensed under section 55 who accepted the booking and the person who made the booking.
(3)Where a person licensed under section 55 in respect of a controlled district is also licensed under that section in respect of another controlled district, subsection (1) (so far as relating to paragraph (b) of that subsection) and section 55B(1) and (2) apply as if each licence were held by a separate person.
(4)Where a person licensed under section 55 in respect of a controlled district is also a London PHV operator, subsection (1) (so far as relating to paragraph (c) of that subsection) and section 55B(1) and (2) apply as if the person holding the licence under section 55 and the London PHV operator were separate persons.
(5)Where a person licensed under section 55 in respect of a controlled district also makes provision in the course of a business for the invitation or acceptance of bookings for a private hire car or taxi in Scotland, subsection (1) (so far as relating to paragraph (d) of that subsection) and section 55B(1) and (2) apply as if the person holding the licence under section 55 and the person making the provision in Scotland were separate persons.In this subsection, “private hire car” and “taxi” have the same meaning as in sections 10 to 22 of the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982.
(6)In this section, “London PHV operator” and “operating centre” have the same meaning as in the Private Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998.
55BSub-contracting by operators: criminal liability
(1)In this section—
the first operator” means a person licensed under section 55 who has in a controlled district accepted a booking for a private hire vehicle and then made arrangements for another person to provide a vehicle to carry out the booking in accordance with section 55A(1);
“the second operator” means the person with whom the first operator made the arrangements (and, accordingly, the person who accepted the sub-contracted booking).
(2)The first operator is not to be treated for the purposes of section 46(1)(e) as operating a private hire vehicle by virtue of having invited or accepted the booking.
(3)The first operator is guilty of an offence if—
(a)the second operator is a person mentioned in section 55A(1)(a) or (b),
(b)the second operator contravenes section 46(1)(e) in respect of the sub-contracted booking, and
(c)the first operator knew that the second operator would contravene section 46(1)(e) in respect of the booking.”


My understanding was that this allowed cross border subject to the 3 licenses rule via the subcontract route but doesn't permit PH to work in another district via the operator they are licensed with which may be what wardy is trying to get at ?

_________________
lack of modern legislation is the iceberg sinking the titanic of the transport sector


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:06 pm
Posts: 24154
Location: Twixt Heaven and Hell, but nearest Hell
or as Wolvo puts it.....



Quote:
2.1 The holder of this licence shall not whilst driving or in charge of a private hire
vehicle:
a) Take or agree to take a fare without it being pre-booked via the Operator,
b) stand or ply for hire or solicit on a road or other public place, any person to
hire or to be carried for hire in any private hire vehicle,
c) cause or procure any other persons to tout or solicit on a road or other public
place any person to hire or be carried for hire in any private hire vehicle,
d) accept an offer for the minimum hire of any private hire vehicle while the
holder or that vehicle is on the road or other public place except where such
an offer is first communicated to the holder by a licensed operator or his duly
authorised servant.

_________________
Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2023 2:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:56 pm
Posts: 2471
wannabeeahack wrote:
or as Wolvo puts it.....



Quote:
2.1 The holder of this licence shall not whilst driving or in charge of a private hire
vehicle:
a) Take or agree to take a fare without it being pre-booked via the Operator,
b) stand or ply for hire or solicit on a road or other public place, any person to
hire or to be carried for hire in any private hire vehicle,
c) cause or procure any other persons to tout or solicit on a road or other public
place any person to hire or be carried for hire in any private hire vehicle,
d) accept an offer for the minimum hire of any private hire vehicle while the
holder or that vehicle is on the road or other public place except where such
an offer is first communicated to the holder by a licensed operator or his duly
authorised servant.


I take this to mean wolvo p/h cannot park up but must keep on the move.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 9:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:06 pm
Posts: 24154
Location: Twixt Heaven and Hell, but nearest Hell
heathcote wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
or as Wolvo puts it.....



Quote:
2.1 The holder of this licence shall not whilst driving or in charge of a private hire
vehicle:
a) Take or agree to take a fare without it being pre-booked via the Operator,
b) stand or ply for hire or solicit on a road or other public place, any person to
hire or to be carried for hire in any private hire vehicle,
c) cause or procure any other persons to tout or solicit on a road or other public
place any person to hire or be carried for hire in any private hire vehicle,
d) accept an offer for the minimum hire of any private hire vehicle while the
holder or that vehicle is on the road or other public place except where such
an offer is first communicated to the holder by a licensed operator or his duly
authorised servant.


I take this to mean wolvo p/h cannot park up but must keep on the move.


can park off road

_________________
Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:17 pm
Posts: 2629
So what about the owner/operator?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 54484
Location: 1066 Country
roythebus wrote:
So what about the owner/operator?

Mr Wardy's view is that it wouldn't matter.

His view is a booking received by a driver outside of their licensing district would be unlawful.

If anything a booking taken by an operator/driver outside of their area would be even more unlawful.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:58 pm
Posts: 3505
Location: Plymouth
Wardy, you put a while ago:

Quote

S75 (1)(a) refers to any vehicle, licensed or not, and allows them to drop off in a controlled district. The Act only comes into force if it makes itself available after it drops off.

S75 (2) and also 2A & B allow a licensed vehicle to pick up, drop off or travel through a controlled district (the right to roam), but if it drops off then s75 (1)(a) comes into force.

End Quote

I don't know if you have considered amendments to the '76, but here they are referring to section 75:

--------------------------------------

Textual Amendments

F147
S. 75(1)(b) omitted (28.1.2008) by virtue of Road Safety Act 2006 (c. 49), ss. 53, 61; S.I. 2007/3492, art. 2 and repealed (prosp.) by Road Safety Act 2006 (c. 49), s. 59, Sch. 7(17)

F148
S. 75(1)(cc) inserted by Transport Act 1985 (c. 67, SIF 126), s. 139(2), Sch. 7 para. 17(2)

F149
S. 75(1)(d)(i) repealed by Transport Act 1985 (c. 67, SIF 126), s. 139(2), Sch. 7 para. 17(2)

F150
S. 75(2A) inserted after subsection (2) by Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 (c. 45, SIF 81:2), ss. 16, 22, 23

F151
S. 75(2B) inserted (8.6.2004) by 1998 c. 34, ss. 39(1), 40(2), Sch. 1 para. 1 (with s. 29); S.I. 2004/241, art. 2(2)

Modifications etc. (not altering text)

C126
Ss. 72-80 modified (27.11.2009) by The Local Services (Operation by Licensed Hire Cars) Regulations 2009 (S.I. 2009/2863), regs. 1, 4 Table (with reg. 3)

----------------------------

I haven't, but I might, check out Stat Inst 2009/2863, as it altered everything section 72 to 80 inclusive. You should definitely check it as Section 75 means a lot to you.

_________________
Chris The Fish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdlyi5mc ... re=related


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:58 pm
Posts: 3505
Location: Plymouth
Couldn't resist it, so had a look.

Quote from SI 2009/2863

Sections 46(1)(d) and (e), 75(1), 75(2A) and (2B) are omitted.

Section 75(2) is omitted to the extent that it would permit the use of a vehicle in contravention of the condition attached to the special licence by section 12(5)(b) of the 1985 Act.

End Quote

_________________
Chris The Fish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdlyi5mc ... re=related


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:08 am
Posts: 21
Chris the Fish wrote:
Couldn't resist it, so had a look.

Quote from SI 2009/2863

Sections 46(1)(d) and (e), 75(1), 75(2A) and (2B) are omitted.


Thats in relevance to a bus service?

Section 75(2) is omitted to the extent that it would permit the use of a vehicle in contravention of the condition attached to the special licence by section 12(5)(b) of the 1985 Act.

End Quote


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 54484
Location: 1066 Country
Seems Taxi-Point is promoting the views of Mr Wardy and Co.

https://www.taxi-point.co.uk/post/cross ... overlooked

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 4:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 22, 2023 2:40 pm
Posts: 8
May I revive this post by asking a very simple question...

Going to be upfront and honest, I'm an Uber driver.

If Uber lets me receive jobs in an area outside of my 'council's district', and I go sit in that area and wait for a job ping, am I legal or illegal?

I have done jobs in said 'out of area' area/s because I split my time between home and partner. Plenty of Police vehicles around, yet why haven't I been pulled over for a chat if the 1976 Act still applies?

May I also add is that why have Wolverhampton Council made it the 'norm' for their new and existing applicants to roam and wait outside of their district without any repercussion? In fact, it obviously has become the norm if they have to send out mobile enforcement teams to various cities including Blackpool, Manchester, Liverpool etc.

If they can do it, so can I, and that's why I do so. It's obviously legal if Wolverhampton (with over 50,000+ registered vehicles) are allowed to carry out work for Uber in areas where there's no ops license for either Wolves or that district in question.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 9:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 54484
Location: 1066 Country
Quote:
If Uber lets me receive jobs in an area outside of my 'council's district', and I go sit in that area and wait for a job ping, am I legal or illegal?

It's legal, in my view, in relation to the booking/operator requirements of the 1976 act.

Where you could fall fail, and you would be incredibly stupid to do this, is where you sit.

If you give the appearance of 'plying for hire', then you could fall fail of the requirements of a different act.

And don't be ashamed of working for Uber,10s of 1000s of drivers do.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 9:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 22, 2023 2:40 pm
Posts: 8
Sussex wrote:
Quote:
If Uber lets me receive jobs in an area outside of my 'council's district', and I go sit in that area and wait for a job ping, am I legal or illegal?

It's legal, in my view, in relation to the booking/operator requirements of the 1976 act.

Where you could fall fail, and you would be incredibly stupid to do this, is where you sit.

If you give the appearance of 'plying for hire', then you could fall fail of the requirements of a different act.

And don't be ashamed of working for Uber,10s of 1000s of drivers do.


I sit myself in areas where it is quiet, either a car park or a residential that's normally quiet. I avoid the town and obviously like any sane private hire driver - ranks, busy public areas, etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 9:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 6:33 am
Posts: 14318
Callum Taxi wrote:
If they can do it, so can I, and that's why I do so. It's obviously legal if Wolverhampton (with over 50,000+ registered vehicles) are allowed to carry out work for Uber in areas where there's no ops license for either Wolves or that district in question.

In fact there should be - and almost certainly will be - a Wolverhampton opertator's licence in place if there's a Wolverhampton-plated car and Wolverhampton-badged driver working anywhere.

It's what the legal eagles and licensing people call the 'triple-lock' - all three licences have to be issued by the same council, but then they have the 'right to roam' anywhere.

On the other hand, the Wolverhampton operator's licence is very often just a pen and paper exercise - or a 'ghost' office, I've seen them described - and not what you'd normally regard as an operator. And, of course, Uber largely operates in some sort of abstract digital environment rather than an old-style bricks and mortar office environment.

But, in this day and age, pretty sure it all complies with the law. Or, at least, no-one's ever managed to demonstrate otherwise.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 92 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group