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New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=40107		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  Brian1010 [ Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
What exactly is a digital platform ?
Phv myself and we do account work , bookings off the app and take cash in the car.
Even the cash we take in the car for jobs is on the system
So how does this only affect the likes of Uber and not your average local taxi driver ?
Author:  grandad [ Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
Brian1010 wrote:
What exactly is a digital platform ?
Phv myself and we do account work , bookings off the app and take cash in the car.
Even the cash we take in the car for jobs is on the system
So how does this only affect the likes of Uber and not your average local taxi driver ?

If you are declaring all your earnings you have nothing to worry about.
Author:  Sussex [ Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
Quote:
So how does this only affect the likes of Uber and not your average local taxi driver ?

Because the average local taxi driver doesn't have an online record of every job he does and the amount he receives for it.
Author:  Brian1010 [ Tue Mar 12, 2024 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
grandad wrote:
Brian1010 wrote:
What exactly is a digital platform ?
Phv myself and we do account work , bookings off the app and take cash in the car.
Even the cash we take in the car for jobs is on the system
So how does this only affect the likes of Uber and not your average local taxi driver ?

If you are declaring all your earnings you have nothing to worry about.


Erm……
Author:  edders23 [ Wed Mar 13, 2024 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
grandad wrote:
Brian1010 wrote:
What exactly is a digital platform ?
Phv myself and we do account work , bookings off the app and take cash in the car.
Even the cash we take in the car for jobs is on the system
So how does this only affect the likes of Uber and not your average local taxi driver ?

If you are declaring all your earnings you have nothing to worry about.



many years ago I used a "taxi specialist" firm of accountants who turned out to be a rogue operator and was immediately investigated by the tax man. I had declared ev ery last penny but the investigating officer was insistent that no taxi driver does and I ended up having to pay too much tax as he refused to accept my figures and insisted on my income figures being inflated a little.

I even spent nearly an hour arguing with him over a fuel receipt which was for £13.00 and I had decared £13 but on the receipt was listed a chocolate bar for 26p (early 90's) receipt total 13.26 eventually I had to agree to the fuel being reduced to £12.74 ! Why because I was supposed to have claimed the total £13.26 and then 26p in the personal use column.

I learned a very hard lesson never declare absolutely everything because the taxman expects you not to do that !

I have also been told that with VAT it is worth always making a couple of little mistakes because when your VAT is inspected they are like a dog with a bone and unless they find something keep on and on. If there are a couple of little mistakes to find they are much happier and you pay the extra few quid and they go away happy.
Author:  Brian1010 [ Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
Sussex wrote:
Quote:
So how does this only affect the likes of Uber and not your average local taxi driver ?

Because the average local taxi driver doesn't have an online record of every job he does and the amount he receives for it.


But that company they drive for does , is it that much more difficult to obtain records from a private hire company ?
Author:  StuartW [ Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
I think Brian's point is quite astute (if only because it reflects the point I was making earlier :lol: ) in that he's questioning the difference between the digital 'platforms' and the more conventional firms.

And which comes back to how HMRC will actually define which 'platforms' will be covered by the new rules. Which, as I said further up the thread, is the million dollar question, and will be interesting and instructive, and is linked to the wider questions about VAT and employment status.

But, in essence it once again comes back to what the difference is between Uber and the conventional trade. Not so much as regards a lot of things, I would say, but of course the whole 'expert' and official premise is that Uber et al are something different. (Although obviously the Sefton VAT case swung the other way as regards official opinion on the differences.)

The main difference in all of this, I would say, is that Uber is cashless.

But, for example, if a 'taxi' firm in St Andrews that just used two-way radios twenty years ago had ten years ago suddenly said that from then on they'd only do app bookings and automated payments, would that suddenly make them a tech platform?

Or, as regards talk of Uber doing trials of cash runs, would that suddenly make them a mainstream 'taxi' firm?

Or are all those 'taxi' operators now doing app stuff also tech platforms like Uber?

Or, if someone used the Uber app to order a car from a Local Cab office, did the local cab office suddenly become a tech platform?

So in terms of cash and automation as regards payments and bookings, it's always been a spectrum between a phone-booking firm doing mostly cash twenty years ago, and Uber and Bolt doing only app-bookings and automated payments today.

So just like the trans and sexuality thing, more of a spectrum than a binary 8-[

So why Uber, Bolt and Ola should be regarded as fundamentally different as regards the new rules is beyond me.

Of course, the information will certainly be more readily available if it's purely a tech platform, but convenience for HMRC shouldn't really be a factor in all of this, in my opinion [-(
Author:  Sussex [ Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
Brian1010 wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Quote:
So how does this only affect the likes of Uber and not your average local taxi driver ?

Because the average local taxi driver doesn't have an online record of every job he does and the amount he receives for it.


But that company they drive for does , is it that much more difficult to obtain records from a private hire company ?

The company I work with has no idea what I take.

They may record account work, but other than that they have no idea.

They also may be able to estimate each job I'm given, but that only works if every job mirrored what the data head says.

Then what about work you do with other operators or work hackneys do off the rank or the path?

TBH I'm not sure you know that much about the taxi/PH trade. :-k
Author:  StuartW [ Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
I wouldn't have thought most firms would have any record regarding cash runs, but Brian was quite specific about his:

Brian 1010 wrote:
Even the cash we take in the car for jobs is on the system

Which doesn't sound like the normal scenario, but on the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if such a thing did happen with some firms...
Author:  Brian1010 [ Wed Mar 27, 2024 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
StuartW wrote:
I wouldn't have thought most firms would have any record regarding cash runs, but Brian was quite specific about his:

Brian 1010 wrote:
Even the cash we take in the car for jobs is on the system

Which doesn't sound like the normal scenario, but on the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if such a thing did happen with some firms...


I’m just assuming every job and monetary value is logged as we use the icabbi app and the value of each job is there on the app on my phone
Author:  grandad [ Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
Brian1010 wrote:

I’m just assuming every job and monetary value is logged as we use the icabbi app and the value of each job is there on the app on my phone

That is the same for us. mind you our drivers are employees on PAYE.
Author:  Brian1010 [ Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
https://www.phtm.co.uk/news/6379/phtm-n ... form-rules
Author:  Brian1010 [ Wed Apr 17, 2024 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
This doesn’t sound like good news :

https://www.taxi-point.co.uk/post/hmrc- ... form-drive
Author:  StuartW [ Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New tax rules : I wonder how many this will catch?
Tax 'expert' wrote:
• Most of the platforms covered by the new legislation are open marketplaces that match sellers to buyers. Examples are Booking.com, eBay, Etsy as well as ridesharing apps such Uber, Bolt, OLA and Freenow.

• Private hire tech exists in a different space because it pairs operators with drivers, who are already regulated through their relationship with the licensing authority.

As I said back in January, who writes this garbage?

Oh, aye, it's PHTM's tax 'expert' :lol:
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