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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 5:11 pm 
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Wasn't going to look at this on TaxiPoint when I saw the title, but curiosity got the better of me.

As is often the case, it all reads like something very padded out to say something really simple - HCs can only ply for hire within the area they're licensed in, and they can't tout anywhere.

But which, for example, means the first highlighted passage seems a bit off - it makes it sound like there's one regime and all the rules are the same everywhere, but a few sentences later it's saying you should look at the local rules to find out the exact position. (And completely ignores the different regime in Scotland - TaxiPoint claims it's about the *UK* trade.)

Then the advice about cross-border pre-booked work looks a bit ropey. Which is confirmed by the quoted passage from West Midlands Police. Oh, my sides :lol:

(Can't be bothered looking back, but the West Midlands Police webpage in question may have been discussed on here before - certainly rings a slight bell...)

And amazed that an article like this doesn't mention 'intended use' policies :-o


Cross-Border Hiring: Understanding rules for Hackney Carriage taxi drivers working outside licensed areas

https://www.taxi-point.co.uk/post/cross ... e-licensed

In the dynamic landscape of the taxi industry, the regulations governing where licensed taxis (Hackney Carriage) drivers can and cannot operate is often a topic of interest.

The rules surrounding cross-border hiring, particularly how and when these drivers can work outside their licensed areas, are intricate yet crucial for both taxi drivers and passengers to understand.

Under current regulations, Hackney Carriage drivers are restricted to operating within the area where they are licensed. This means they can pick up passengers from the streets or taxi ranks only within this specific zone. The licensing area, usually defined by local authority boundaries, ensures that drivers are familiar with the region and adhere to its specific regulations.

However, the rules do allow for some flexibility in terms of cross-border hiring, particularly regarding pre-booked jobs. A Hackney Carriage driver can accept a pre-booked job that starts or ends outside of their licensed area, provided the booking is made within their licensed area first. This provision enables drivers to take passengers from locations outside their usual operating zone, as long as the journey is pre-arranged.

It is best for Hackney Carriage drivers to look at local rules required as to whether they need to accept the pre-booked jobs via an operator when working outside their region. For example, West Midlands Police say: “Hackney Carriages can legally work anywhere in the country but once outside of their licensed district they can only take booked journeys via a private hire company.”

Importantly, taxi drivers cannot solicit or accept hailing from the streets or use taxi ranks outside their licensed area. This restriction quite rightly remains in place to maintain order and fairness within the local taxi markets and to ensure passenger safety by using drivers familiar with the area.

For many taxi drivers, their operations remain primarily within their licensed area throughout their careers. However, for those drivers who commute from outside their licensed area, the option to fill their incoming journey with pre-booked work is a viable and often economically beneficial choice. This practice, known as 'dead mileage' reduction, allows drivers to maximise their earning potential and efficiency.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 5:12 pm 
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The West Midlands Police link is here:
https://www.west-midlands.police.uk/you ... ying-trade

There's another recent TaxiPoint piece on PHVs and cross-border working. Can't be bothered going into the details of that, but again it says it's about "the UK taxi and private hire vehicle (PHV) industry".

But which doesn't mention the totally different cross-border regime in Scotland. Or, at least I assumed it doesn't - just used the search function to search the page for 'Scotland', and it nothing comes up [-(

https://www.taxi-point.co.uk/post/cross ... out-of-tow


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:43 pm 
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a HC can work anywhere (England/Wales) through a PH base UNLESS its licensing authority has an "Intended useage" clause in its licencsing policy

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:47 pm 
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The London taxi trade really doesn't understand anything about bookings outside of London.

If I was advising drivers of the inns and outs of the 1976 act, in respect of PH and taxi pre-booking, I would steer them well away from that article.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:49 pm 
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Quote:
For example, West Midlands Police say: “Hackney Carriages can legally work anywhere in the country but once outside of their licensed district they can only take booked journeys via a private hire company.”

I'm going to be generous and say that was lost in translation.

Those not so generous would say it was utter b***ocks.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:48 pm 
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Wanna wrote:
a HC can work anywhere (England/Wales) through a PH base...

Yes, but can do likewise through an unlicensed HC circuit, correct me if I'm wrong?

In essence, an HC can work anywhere doing pre-booked work, as long as it doesn't ply for hire out-of-area.

Which is where, I think, the West Midlands Police statement is wrong - an HC doesn't have to work through a 'PH company' to accept pre-booked work, irrespective of where that pre-booked work comes from.

(Unless, of course, the plating authority has an intended use policy...or in Scotland.)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:34 pm 
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There is a school of thought that hackneys can only take bookings when in their own area, unless via a licensed operator.

I don't share those thoughts.

To me it's crystal clear, a hackney can take a phone booking from anywhere, and it doesn't have to be via a licensed operator.

There are no hackney/operator provisions in the acts, therefore no law for any hackney to break.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 9:37 am 
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Sussex wrote:
There is a school of thought that hackneys can only take bookings when in their own area, unless via a licensed operator.

I don't share those thoughts.

To me it's crystal clear, a hackney can take a phone booking from anywhere, and it doesn't have to be via a licensed operator.

There are no hackney/operator provisions in the acts, therefore no law for any hackney to break.

If I am dropping off at say Download festival in my Hackney and someone asks if I can take them home I can just give them my phone number for them to ring me, which they do, and then I can take them?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 7:55 pm 
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If I am dropping off at say Download festival in my Hackney and someone asks if I can take them home I can just give them my phone number for them to ring me, which they do, and then I can take them?

I suppose the scenario you outline could be viewed as touting, but in respect of 1976 act requirements I think you can.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 8:47 pm 
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Maybe the best way to look at Grandad's scenario is to assume it's a PHV. So if the booking would be legal with a PHV, then it would similarly be legal for an HC. Except that the HC booking mechanism wouldn't require a licensed booking entity.

Thus the possible pitfall would be the same for both a PHV and out-of-area HC - that the driver is possibly plying for hire (can't really see any touting angle unless the driver is actively approaching potential customers, but again any problems in that regard would be the same for an out-of-area HC as for a PHV).

However, I'm not precisely sure when the booking scenario would be legal and not considered plying for hire, or touting. But if the booking mechanism was legal for a PHV, presumably it would be legal for an out-of-area HC, but without a third-tier licence required for the latter :?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2024 5:47 pm 
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If the taxi driver has just dropped, I fail to see how he could be viewed as plying for hire, should he be approached.

The law regarding hackneys is quite clear when it comes to pre-booking, there isn't one. Other than what they can charge within their licensing area for a pre-booked job.

In respect of personal bookings the scenario I always share is one of a hackney that takes a personal booking (within their licensing area) for an airport pickup.

The customer gives the landing time and the driver sets off. Say a two-hour drive. He arrives at the airport when the customer rings and says the flight has been diverted to another nearby airport.

Is anyone really saying the driver would have to drive back to his licensing area to take the new booking, and then drive back up again, for it to be legal.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2024 8:02 pm 
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Quote:
If the taxi driver has just dropped, I fail to see how he could be viewed as plying for hire, should he be approached.

Depends whether or not he accepts the hire there and then :wink:

But, to reiterate, I'd guess it's just the same thought process and mechanism that would decide whether or not a PHV dropping would be regarded as plying for hire, except that for a booking to be legitimate the out-of-area HCD wouldn't require a licensed booking entity.

But where precisely the line is drawn between illegally plying for hire and a legitimate booking I'm not sure :?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:22 am 
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It’s always down to the individual circumstances at the time.

What was the drivers actions? Did he wait in a prominent position? Did he drive around in circles? Did the vehicle have signage? What was the interactions between the driver and the customer?

But if it’s a case of a customer coming up to the taxi/PH and asking for a ride and the driver passes on a card, then I’m not sure what law is broken if the punter rings that number and that driver gets the job.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:03 am 
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Sussex wrote:
It’s always down to the individual circumstances at the time.

What was the drivers actions? Did he wait in a prominent position? Did he drive around in circles? Did the vehicle have signage? What was the interactions between the driver and the customer?

But if it’s a case of a customer coming up to the taxi/PH and asking for a ride and the driver passes on a card, then I’m not sure what law is broken if the punter rings that number and that driver gets the job.
The incident happened a few years ago when we were Hackney's. I was dropping at Download and whilst the customers were getting out of the car I was asked if I could take a couple to Derby. As it happens I had to get back to my town so I Just said sorry I am booked. Our office phone number was on the vehicle and for the next 30-40 minutes the office was inundated by people wanting taxis from Download.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2024 4:16 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
There is a school of thought that hackneys can only take bookings when in their own area, unless via a licensed operator.

I don't share those thoughts.

To me it's crystal clear, a hackney can take a phone booking from anywhere, and it doesn't have to be via a licensed operator.

There are no hackney/operator provisions in the acts, therefore no law for any hackney to break.

If I am dropping off at say Download festival in my Hackney and someone asks if I can take them home I can just give them my phone number for them to ring me, which they do, and then I can take them?



after the fest yes, on the same day there and then no

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