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 Post subject: how can this be legal?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 2:28 pm 
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I have just received this from our licensing team in Melton Borough and I assume that all other local authorities within at least 30 miles of Donnington Park have received the same email.

Dear Licensing Authority,
You will know doubt be aware that the famous Download Festival at Donington park is fast approaching us on 14-16 June. Campsite arrivals will be from Wednesday 12th June.
North west Leicestershire DC have worked tirelessly with the event organisers, transport providers and Taxi Rank facilitators for this year’s event. As per previous years, the festival operates an onsite Hackney Carriage rank which will be a permit operated system. If any of your HC drivers are looking to acquire a permit to work at the festival, further information can be obtained by contacting the Taxi rank team at taxisatdownload@gmail.com
Permits will be subject to site and operational rules.
Please feel free to pass on the information to any of your HC drivers. In the meantime, if you have any queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards
Andrew Cooper

Licensing Team Leader | Environmental Health - Licensing


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 7:10 pm 
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I'm guessing the venue isn't in your licensing area.

If the rank is well away from the road, or in legal terms, public place, and on private land, then hackneys from anywhere can rank with the permission of the land owner.

Think the Birmingham Airport case allows that. There both Birmingham and Solihull hackneys ranked up, as the rank wasn't accessible to the public from a public place, as opposed to the airport.

As for getting a permit, I would tell them to go **** themselves as getting in and out of these festivals is nothing short of a nightmare.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 8:45 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
I'm guessing the venue isn't in your licensing area.

If the rank is well away from the road, or in legal terms, public place, and on private land, then hackneys from anywhere can rank with the permission of the land owner.

Think the Birmingham Airport case allows that. There both Birmingham and Solihull hackneys ranked up, as the rank wasn't accessible to the public from a public place, as opposed to the airport.

As for getting a permit, I would tell them to go **** themselves as getting in and out of these festivals is nothing short of a nightmare.

That is interesting.
We recently had a drivers meeting at the Council and one of the topics was the forbidden forest festival at Belvoir Castle in our Borough. They were saying that there would be a dedicated taxi rank for all hackney carriages. I asked if this was legal or because it was in our Borough that only Hackneys licensed here could pick up without a booking and the licensing team agreed.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2024 11:04 am 
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This is from South kesteven.

No. A hackney carriage cannot ply for hire or accept a hailing whilst on a private road/land, even if access is permitted to the public to use the road for access. A pre-booked pick up can be accepted from a private road/land.
GUIDE FOR HACKNEY CARRIAGE - southkesteven.gov.uk


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2024 2:33 pm 
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grandad wrote:
This is from South kesteven.

No. A hackney carriage cannot ply for hire or accept a hailing whilst on a private road/land, even if access is permitted to the public to use the road for access. A pre-booked pick up can be accepted from a private road/land.
GUIDE FOR HACKNEY CARRIAGE - southkesteven.gov.uk

That doesn’t say what’s being proposed by the council you mentioned above is illegal.

It’s all about public access to private land. I’m guessing the music festival is only open to people attending the festival, not some bloke walking his dog.

So just like the airport situation the ‘rank’ is only serving those who have permission to be on the airport property I.e. airport passengers. There would be no facility for the general public to gain access to the ‘rank’ from the public place.

In the Birmingham airport situation there was a barrier, and it could be viewed that anyone on their land without good reason would be trespassing.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2024 2:43 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
This is from South kesteven.

No. A hackney carriage cannot ply for hire or accept a hailing whilst on a private road/land, even if access is permitted to the public to use the road for access. A pre-booked pick up can be accepted from a private road/land.
GUIDE FOR HACKNEY CARRIAGE - southkesteven.gov.uk

That doesn’t say what’s being proposed by the council you mentioned above is illegal.

It’s all about public access to private land. I’m guessing the music festival is only open to people attending the festival, not some bloke walking his dog.

So just like the airport situation the ‘rank’ is only serving those who have permission to be on the airport property I.e. airport passengers. There would be no facility for the general public to gain access to the ‘rank’ from the public place.

In the Birmingham situation there was a barrier, and it could be viewed that anyone on their land without good reason would be trespassing.

So is what you are saying that any hackney from any district can pick up a fare in any other district without that fare being pre booked provided that the pick up is on private land not accessable to the general public. So for instance if you have bought a ticket to say the download festival and you go to the taxi rank for a ride home then any hackney carriage from anywhere can pick you up legally? Does this hold the same for say a racecourse where you have had to pay for a ticket to go in and the racecourse is private land? Or as you say an airport? does this also apply to a train station where the rank is on private land? Does this also apply to a private hire vehicle picking up on private land in the same circumstances?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2024 2:49 pm 
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That’s basically what the Birmingham airport judgement says.

I will put the judgement up later but in short the airport is, from memory, in the licensing area of Solihull.

However it was being served, think still is, by licensed Birmingham hackneys alongside their Solihull colleagues.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2024 5:30 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
I will put the judgement up later

JD put it up on here 18 years ago, I think when we were looking at the Eastbourne judgement.

It's quite long but it confirms what I've said above.

https://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/vi ... =13&t=4662

The Eastbourne judgement which kind of alines more with the comment that was posted from South Kesteven, in that the rank at Eastbourne Station was right by the main road, so people not using the station would be attracted to the cars ranked up there.

I would have said hackneys ranked there, but the issue that was before the court related to a PH firm gaining the contract to service the station 'rank', which as one could imagine went down like a sack of ****.

https://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.c ... 0/410.html

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 4:16 pm 
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A lot of railway station roads are private land, owned by Network Rail these days. Taxis have always been able to rank at stations, sometimes having to buy a permit to do so.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 7:07 pm 
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roythebus wrote:
A lot of railway station roads are private land, owned by Network Rail these days. Taxis have always been able to rank at stations, sometimes having to buy a permit to do so.

But can taxis from one area rank at a station in another area?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 7:30 pm 
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grandad wrote:
roythebus wrote:
A lot of railway station roads are private land, owned by Network Rail these days. Taxis have always been able to rank at stations, sometimes having to buy a permit to do so.

But can taxis from one area rank at a station in another area?

I think the answer depends on where the rank is positioned.

If it's by the main road then only local hackneys can ply, if it's hidden around the back and only accessible to train passengers then maybe not.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 10:24 am 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
roythebus wrote:
A lot of railway station roads are private land, owned by Network Rail these days. Taxis have always been able to rank at stations, sometimes having to buy a permit to do so.

But can taxis from one area rank at a station in another area?

I think the answer depends on where the rank is positioned.

If it's by the main road then only local hackneys can ply, if it's hidden around the back and only accessible to train passengers then maybe not.

the station in our town is on private land and the private road starts about 100 yards from the pick up area. So are you saying that any Hackney from anywhere can pick up customers without a booking from there? What about Private Hire cars? As it is private land do they still need a booking or can they just rank up and take anyone?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 6:28 pm 
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Quote:
the station in our town is on private land and the private road starts about 100 yards from the pick up area. So are you saying that any Hackney from anywhere can pick up customers without a booking from there? What about Private Hire cars? As it is private land do they still need a booking or can they just rank up and take anyone?

The question is do non-station users use the rank or is it possible for those people to use the rank? If it's yes then it needs to be a locally licensed hackney. If no then it can be a non-local hackney as long as they have permission from the landowner.

If it's no then PH can rank up as it's not a public place, but they will still need to be pre-booked. That's the way 'taxi' services are supplied by the official Gatwick supplier.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 9:48 am 
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Sussex wrote:
Quote:
the station in our town is on private land and the private road starts about 100 yards from the pick up area. So are you saying that any Hackney from anywhere can pick up customers without a booking from there? What about Private Hire cars? As it is private land do they still need a booking or can they just rank up and take anyone?

The question is do non-station users use the rank or is it possible for those people to use the rank? If it's yes then it needs to be a locally licensed hackney. If no then it can be a non-local hackney as long as they have permission from the landowner.

If it's no then PH can rank up as it's not a public place, but they will still need to be pre-booked. That's the way 'taxi' services are supplied by the official Gatwick supplier.
So the Wolverhampton plated private hire cars sitting at the station must be pre booked, which is not the case, and our Council licensing team are sitting at desks that overlook this area and they won't even check the cars out when they park up at the station pick up point.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:20 pm 
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Council officials are still paid whether they sit at their desk sipping their coffee whilst trying to catch you out on a paperwork error or actually going out doing enforcement.

Which is the easier option ?

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