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UK cab trade debate and advice
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:34 am 
Anonymous wrote:
TAXIBUS SCHEME

The experimental taxibus scheme has not yet begun, but it is believed to have been won by a local taxi firm who will announce it on here as soon as the contract has been signed.

Serious discussions are commencing, and its believed that the taxi firm are about to sign a legal aggreement with West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive,aggreeing that vehicles provided will not be used on the local taxi ranks.

The scheme is designes to.


cut car usage
cut rural depravation.
provide services to health care.
services to education.
services to shopping
connector services to buses and trains.

the vehicles will stand out from the main taxis by having a burgandy skirt
as opposed to the white of other taxis.

There will be a core of services that will run in peak, and a timetable of services that will run when passengers have telephoned the taxi firm.

The vehicles will recieve fuel bus grant.

none of the services will be designed to hurt taxi or private hire services within the area.

the taxi firm have changed thier software for the scheme from midas to mercury and will use thier satelite systems.

we will post reports


Thanks for the information, I think these schemes could be good for the trade over the long term. In my area we were far busier when there was a good bus service after dereg of the bus services declined rapidly and having your own car became far more attractive. The more people are encouraged to use public transport the better. Taxis need to be defined as Public Transport and get the same considerations as the buses. Taxis are still considered an expensive option but in reality the per person fare can be competative with bus and rail fares. Taxis should be included in the intergrated transport plans but very often they barely get a mention. We are our own worst enemey when it come to dealing with LA's etc. there is so much infighting and division within the trade often very little to do with business rivalry or normal competition, personal grudges often overide business sense. Most drivers don't seem to look any further than the next job. We need more people with business experience and skills to plan a long term policy. Taxi driving is considered a dead end job and that needs to be changed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:33 pm 
T. wrote:
For Mr. J. Davies.
From the dictionary.
GAMBLE:1. place a bet on:stake.
2. risk: hazard, speculate, something of uncertain outcome.
RISK:n, possibility of harm, loss etc: gamble: chance. vt, take a chance on: gamble: hazard.

Those are the exact definitions from a contempary dictionary, I think that more than proves the point that risk and gamble are by definition the SAME.


I am going to be very busy these next few days but I would like to respond to this particular post first. I shall reply to your other posts early next week. In the meantime I would like to set you straight on something you continually misrepresent.

You refer to the word "Risk" if you look back through my posts you will see I have always referred to a "Calculated Risk" you repeatedly fail to represent what I have quoted yet in another post you accuse another poster of misquoting you.

With regard to a Calculated risk and I assume from now on you will refer to what I said as being a calculated risk I would like you to consider the following. I think the following will sit well with most people as regard the definition of a calculated risk.

My definition of a gamble is "when the outcome is left to pure chance".

Note that all forms of in-house legalised gambling are understandably not left to pure chance. The fact that the house always has the edge to pay their taxes, overheads and to afford themselves a healthy profit creates the situation where they are not gambling but taking a calculated risk.

When you use their services, you are *not* gambling but paying dearly for the privilege of being a recipient of their calculated risk.

A calculated risk is exactly what the words state. The risks associated with the contemplated action, "have been calculated".

For example, when you drive your car to work or fly in a commercial airliner, you are taking a calculated risk. You are not gambling. You have accurately calculated that the risks are negligible. Going to a casino to win money rather than to be entertained is also a calculated risk. However the risks are substantial. The odds are intentionally stacked against you mathematically.

When you make a purchasing decision in your wealth creation program there will always be a calculated risk. Most intelligent people will try to make sure this risk factor is minimized as close to zero as possible. They will always do their homework first.

Remember that “Fools rush in where angels fear to tread”.

Never, ever gamble on the outcome. If you leave the outcome to pure chance you are by default accepting the victim role in life. For something like an H/C plate the outcome is not in your hands therefore it is a Gamble.

Someone’s enthusiasm to buy a plate may sometimes lead to impulsive and rash decisions that prove to be a sheer gamble. Never forget the cardinal rule - take calculated risks when the odds are clearly in your favour, but never gamble.

In life you cannot avoid calculated risks but fortunately you have the personal freedom to calculate any and all risk factors.

So, the main difference between a gamble and a calculated risk is the element of freedom to make a decision. In a gamble you are allowing yourself to be the victim. In a calculated risk, you remain the master of your own destiny!

In making a calculated decision on any risk you should always review all information regarding the risk. You should know how to evaluate that risk and if you can’t do that yourself then you should seek advice elsewhere.

You should also be able to determine the probability of a risk and its potential consequences and how to combine these factors to reach a better understanding of a risks importance. The better you understand a risk the more able you will be to manage it.

If at the end of the day you have calculated that there is more chance of a risk failing and you still proceed with it…then that is a gamble. On the other hand if you have calculated that the risks are minimal then you have achieved what you have set out to do.

If you believe that buying a plate is a calculated risk and it has minimal loss potential then you have made a calculated risk. However there are times when you may perceive that your risk is calculated but others may see it as being miscalculated.

So for me and possibly a lot of other people a calculated risk is not a Gamble, at the end of the day you are leaving very little to chance. This is completely the reverse to what you are saying.

Best wishes


JD


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:13 pm 
"John"
Wake me up whn you have finished this battle of semantics, you are being quite pedantic and I am getting frantic with your antics.
Ged :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:19 am 
John Davies wrote:
T. wrote:
For Mr. J. Davies.
From the dictionary.
GAMBLE:1. place a bet on:stake.
2. risk: hazard, speculate, something of uncertain outcome.
RISK:n, possibility of harm, loss etc: gamble: chance. vt, take a chance on: gamble: hazard.

Those are the exact definitions from a contempary dictionary, I think that more than proves the point that risk and gamble are by definition the SAME.


I am going to be very busy these next few days but I would like to respond to this particular post first. I shall reply to your other posts early next week. In the meantime I would like to set you straight on something you continually misrepresent.

You refer to the word "Risk" if you look back through my posts you will see I have always referred to a "Calculated Risk" you repeatedly fail to represent what I have quoted yet in another post you accuse another poster of misquoting you.

With regard to a Calculated risk and I assume from now on you will refer to what I said as being a calculated risk I would like you to consider the following. I think the following will sit well with most people as regard the definition of a calculated risk.

My definition of a gamble is "when the outcome is left to pure chance".

Note that all forms of in-house legalised gambling are understandably not left to pure chance. The fact that the house always has the edge to pay their taxes, overheads and to afford themselves a healthy profit creates the situation where they are not gambling but taking a calculated risk.

When you use their services, you are *not* gambling but paying dearly for the privilege of being a recipient of their calculated risk.

A calculated risk is exactly what the words state. The risks associated with the contemplated action, "have been calculated".

For example, when you drive your car to work or fly in a commercial airliner, you are taking a calculated risk. You are not gambling. You have accurately calculated that the risks are negligible. Going to a casino to win money rather than to be entertained is also a calculated risk. However the risks are substantial. The odds are intentionally stacked against you mathematically.

When you make a purchasing decision in your wealth creation program there will always be a calculated risk. Most intelligent people will try to make sure this risk factor is minimized as close to zero as possible. They will always do their homework first.

Remember that “Fools rush in where angels fear to tread”.

Never, ever gamble on the outcome. If you leave the outcome to pure chance you are by default accepting the victim role in life. For something like an H/C plate the outcome is not in your hands therefore it is a Gamble.

Someone’s enthusiasm to buy a plate may sometimes lead to impulsive and rash decisions that prove to be a sheer gamble. Never forget the cardinal rule - take calculated risks when the odds are clearly in your favour, but never gamble.

In life you cannot avoid calculated risks but fortunately you have the personal freedom to calculate any and all risk factors.

So, the main difference between a gamble and a calculated risk is the element of freedom to make a decision. In a gamble you are allowing yourself to be the victim. In a calculated risk, you remain the master of your own destiny!

In making a calculated decision on any risk you should always review all information regarding the risk. You should know how to evaluate that risk and if you can’t do that yourself then you should seek advice elsewhere.

You should also be able to determine the probability of a risk and its potential consequences and how to combine these factors to reach a better understanding of a risks importance. The better you understand a risk the more able you will be to manage it.

If at the end of the day you have calculated that there is more chance of a risk failing and you still proceed with it…then that is a gamble. On the other hand if you have calculated that the risks are minimal then you have achieved what you have set out to do.

If you believe that buying a plate is a calculated risk and it has minimal loss potential then you have made a calculated risk. However there are times when you may perceive that your risk is calculated but others may see it as being miscalculated.

So for me and possibly a lot of other people a calculated risk is not a Gamble, at the end of the day you are leaving very little to chance. This is completely the reverse to what you are saying.

Best wishes


JD


Repy from T.

What an absolute load of crap, you are talking absolute nonsense. You are so arrogant that you think you are smarter than the dictionary.
RISK and GAMBLE are the same that is a fact. Adding calculated in front of it does not change a thing. RISK by definition is incalcuable, it is the element of uncertainty. You are confusing PROBABILITY with RISK.
If you toss a coin there two outcomes "Heads" or "Tails" 1:1 an even money shot, that never changes no matter how many times you toss the coin, but if you take a large sample of events (tosses) the probability is that the number of heads and tails will be similar, but there is no certainty that they will be equal. Is that gamble or calculated risk.
You are wrong, you know it and everybody else that read the thread knows it, all the bluster and whaffle will not change it.
My original statement was that anyone considering buying a plate should conscider all possible outcomes and options and relate that to their own personal circumstances and I still stand by that as good advice. You then introduced rubbish about loans, bank managers, all your mates making fortunes from everything other than taxis.
You are a pompus pratt.
T.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:52 am 
I dont think buying a plate at the mo is a risk or a gamble, its complete and utter madness.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 11:44 am 
Anonymous wrote:
I dont think buying a plate at the mo is a risk or a gamble, its complete and utter madness.


So why arn't there thousands of plates for sale?
If they are such a bad prospect why are so many hanging on to them?
The facts and reality do not bear out such comments.
Are you a plate holder or a wannabee ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 53921
Location: 1066 Country
From my experience those in the know are the ones who are selling, and those not in the know, new to the trade, are the ones buying.

Why are some not selling their plates? Could be that they got them for nothing and are quite happy as they are.

Oh, and they don't want to screw some poor sod for tens of thousands.

Unlike some. :(

_________________
IDFIMH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:24 am 
Sussex wrote:
From my experience those in the know are the ones who are selling, and those not in the know, new to the trade, are the ones buying.

Why are some not selling their plates? Could be that they got them for nothing and are quite happy as they are.

Oh, and they don't want to screw some poor sod for tens of thousands.

Unlike some. :(


Usual cloud cockoo land crap from Sussex.
Business is business a thing is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Only a wannabee would make such a crass statement.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 53921
Location: 1066 Country
T. wrote:
Usual cloud cockoo land crap from Sussex.

It's called being honest, council's have a phrase for it. It's called being 'fit and proper'.

You should give it a go sometime. :shock:

_________________
IDFIMH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:55 am 
Sussex wrote:
T. wrote:
Usual cloud cockoo land crap from Sussex.

It's called being honest, council's have a phrase for it. It's called being 'fit and proper'.

You should give it a go sometime. :shock:



So by your rational all business is dis-honest !
You moron.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:03 am 
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User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 53921
Location: 1066 Country
So when a person sells his plate, what's the chance of him telling the buyer that it could be worth nothing in a year’s time? As I said 'fit and proper', I don't think so. :(

Compare that to buying a house, where estate agents have a duty to tell the truth, and where searches and legal advice is a pre-requisite.

_________________
IDFIMH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:14 am 
Sussex wrote:
So when a person sells his plate, what's the chance of him telling the buyer that it could be worth nothing in a year’s time? As I said 'fit and proper', I don't think so. :(

Compare that to buying a house, where estate agents have a duty to tell the truth, and where searches and legal advice is a pre-requisite.



You are holding up Estate Agents as your example of honesty and integrity, is this Comedy Club Sunday ?
Anyone buying a plate would have already researched that, do you think people who buy plates can't read, or buy on a whim knowing nothing anything about the trade. You expect us to believe that there is anyone who bought a plate blind without any prior knowlege of the taxi trade.
Your stupidity is boundless.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:58 am 
Anonymous wrote:
Sussex wrote:
So when a person sells his plate, what's the chance of him telling the buyer that it could be worth nothing in a year’s time? As I said 'fit and proper', I don't think so. :(

Compare that to buying a house, where estate agents have a duty to tell the truth, and where searches and legal advice is a pre-requisite.


Anyone buying a plate would have already researched that, do you think people who buy plates can't read, or buy on a whim knowing nothing anything about the trade. You expect us to believe that there is anyone who bought a plate blind without any prior knowlege of the taxi trade.
Your stupidity is boundless.


Your ignorance really astounds me. On Friday a West Indian owner who had recently bought a plate approached me for advice on the future of the Cab Game. He hadn't a clue what had recently taken place with regard to the OFT report and all the furore of the aftermath surrounding that report.

He was clueless as to the politics of the Cab game and the legalities that surround it. He like many, many others in Manchester, especially the Asian community have not got a clue what is going on. So don’t presume that everyone is aware of the delicate situation regarding the uncertainty of buying a plate at this moment in time.

Why do you think that it’s mainly Asians buying plates in Manchester and it’s mainly the white owners that are selling them?

Best wishes

JD


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 11:28 am 
Anonymous wrote:
Gateshead Angel wrote:
Sussex wrote:
The leeches you talk about, are those you wish to defend, those that take vast sums of money out of the trade by either selling something they got for nothing, or sitting on their fat bums whilst those not lucky enough earn their livings for them.


You still don't get this do you Sussex.

Even though you've been told countless times, the majority of H/C plates are held by people who BOUGHT THEM.

Some buy them to rent out to drivers who couldn't afford a plate of their own and as far as I'm aware its a arrangement that suits both parties.

What you fail to acknowledge is the greater number of leeches at work within the P/H sector.

Think about how much P/H drivers have to fork out before you use your normal "whats that got to do with it" reply.

Dream your dreams

B. Lucky


Surley people who pay for plates have thought it through and have some business plan, they are far more likely to make a success of it than someone who cannot budget enough to buy one. They are demonstrating a degree of business acumen.


The only thing that is being demonstrated is your naivety. Not everyone who buys a plate thinks it through. You should come to Manchester you can sell as many plates as you want and the only people who will buy them at the going rate are Asians. The vast majority of Asians have not got a fackin clue what is going on. All they have is a growing ambition to own a cab. Amongst other things they look on owning a Cab as a Status symbol.

JD


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 11:37 am 
John Davies wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Sussex wrote:
So when a person sells his plate, what's the chance of him telling the buyer that it could be worth nothing in a year’s time? As I said 'fit and proper', I don't think so. :(

Compare that to buying a house, where estate agents have a duty to tell the truth, and where searches and legal advice is a pre-requisite.


Anyone buying a plate would have already researched that, do you think people who buy plates can't read, or buy on a whim knowing nothing anything about the trade. You expect us to believe that there is anyone who bought a plate blind without any prior knowlege of the taxi trade.
Your stupidity is boundless.


Your ignorance really astounds me. On Friday a West Indian owner who had recently bought a plate approached me for advice on the future of the Cab Game. He hadn't a clue what had recently taken place with regard to the OFT report and all the furore of the aftermath surrounding that report.

He was clueless as to the politics of the Cab game and the legalities that surround it. He like many, many others in Manchester, especially the Asian community have not got a clue what is going on. So don’t presume that everyone is aware of the delicate situation regarding the uncertainty of buying a plate at this moment in time.

Why do you think that it’s mainly Asians buying plates in Manchester and it’s mainly the white owners that are selling them?

Best wishes

JD


Well he must have been very ignorant and stupid to approach you for advice. This post is thinly disguised racism, your inference that whites know what they are doing and asians and west indians have no business sense or are not aware of what is happening in the community they live. If I were a member of either of those groups I would be deeply offended.
I will not take part in any futher discussion on this subject until this rasist slur is retracted and an apology posted.


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