Taxi Driver Online

Taken from the Tap in 2 Taxi site;

Brentwood Borough Council-v-Gladen 06/02/04
Brentwood Borough Council brought prosecutions against the Defendant for Operating Private Hire Vehicles without holding a Private Hire Operators Licence, notwithstanding the fact that the vehicles in question were Licensed Hackney Carriages. The Council argued that when a telephone booking is taken for a Hackney Carriage Vehicle (i.e when it is not flagged down or hailed at a rank) the vehicles is used a a "Private Hire Vehicle". The Defendant argued that it was still a Hackney Carriage, albeit it was used under a "contract for Private Hire", in which case there was no requirement to hold an Private Hire Operators Licence. After lengthy legal argument, the District Judge agreed with the defence and the Defendant was acquitted on all charges. This case is now proceeding at the Council's request to the High Court by way of Case Stated and its outcome will be reported in due course.

It doesn't say if the taxi involved was from the Brentford area, but if it wasn't, then what license allows him to pick up out of his area?

I look forward to the High Court hearing.

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IDFIMH

An interesting subject.

I always maintain that the sensible way for the PH Operators licence to be interpreted was that a 'Private Hire Operator' was someone who took 'private hire bookings'. From you post it was this theory that the council were trying to establish.

However I and my Licensing Officer have always accepted that a Private Operator Licence is only required if the operator has 'licensed PH vehicles on his fleet'.

It is down to the distinction whether an operator is licensed to accept bookings or run PH vehicles.

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A member of the Hire or Reward Industry

The Doncaster case said that a HC doesn't need a PH ops license, but I think that was based on work within the HC's area.

R-v-Doncaster MBC ex parte Heath - High Court of Justice QBD CO 16th October 2000
A Hackney Carriage Proprietor does not need to hold a Private Hire Opertaors Licence even in circumstances where that Proprietor is accepting pre-booked fares. This decsion blows a hole clean through the 1991 Worcester Crown Court decsion (which was not binding in any event) which suggested that one has to look at the function of the vehicle and not its form. In the Doncaster case his Lordship took the view that the Council had fallen into the trap of imposing Private Hire requirements under the Local Governemnt (Miscellaneous Provisons) Act 1976 on the Hackney sector, when there was no power to do so.


I still think that an independant HC should have an ops license if they pick up outside their area.

But I'm (yet again) in the minority with that view.

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IDFIMH

Its not ground breaking stuff, see Doncaster Council judgement.
the judge is right a taxi is always a taxi

Geoff

If that was the case then why cant we all pick up it London?

If you are so stupid as to ask this question you will never understand the answer.

Its not an interesting question, its the same nosense that comes up every so often. PH operators/drivers want to have exclusive rights to prebooked work. Taxi should only accept, rank work and flag downs. Should not have radios at all. I have never had a customer ask for a PH, everyone books a taxi, very few know what a PH is and even fewer care. There is no market or demand for PH, it just a means of getting into the taxi market.

I have a HC,if I take a customer into another area,say 10,20,or whatever
miles away,and they ask me or phone me,to collect them at such and
such a time,what is the problem.
In this scenario HC,PH,no difference.
Different if HC touting for business,but if pre-booked,no problem.

N.A.Problemo Italy.

Well I think it is interesting, and for that matter so does the court or they wouldn't have granted leave to appeal.

But in relation to only PH doing phone work, I think that's as sensible a way forward as restricting taxi numbers . And the fact that you have never had customer ask for a PH confirms the stupidity of taxi quotas.

As for there being no demand for PH, well I beg to differ. If that was the case then tell me why the majority of London use minicabs/LPH.

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IDFIMH

It's slightly different up your manor because you don't have operator licenses.

Down here taxis don't (or they don't at the mo) need ops licenses, but if they pick up outside their area they have (in my honest opinion) no vaild license to do so.

Some say it's their taxi license, but if they read their by-laws, they will see that they are only licensed to ply within their district.

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IDFIMH

So frustrating when you have five different postings by Guest and you don't know if this is one person or several you are debating with.

My point Geoff (another guest?) was what is the operator being licensed to do.

Is it to run a booking office, take bookings from the public and distributing them to Private Hire Vehicles?

Or is it to manage a fleet of Private Hire vehicles?

If it is the first I believe anyone who runs 'a booking office' using either Taxis/PH should be licensed because as you state the public does not differentiate between the two types of service.

If it is the second, how is he meant to do that when generally the ph drivers own their cars and can move from office to office freely.

IMHO it make sense for the role of a 'booking office' to be licensed.

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A member of the Hire or Reward Industry

Sussex.
sometimes you show intelect

other times you could be mistaken for a Mansfield back marker

This is a fairly good website you found Sussex.

http://www.tapin2taxis.co.uk/court-cases.asp

There are some interesting cases further down the list.

With regard to this out of area business, the Doncaster case says it all does it not? If I remember correctly, there is also a London case with a similar set of circumstances which also went in favour of the defendent.

Best wishes

JD

Tom.

if you are not sure and you hold one, how can I be?

private hire means opperators are responsible for parking, public hire the council are (ranks)

I suppose the role of opperators is to be responsible for order of that market, bit it aint working is it?

I had the Doncaster case on disc somewhere, but now I can't find the bloody thing.

But from memory it concerned a Doncaster taxi picking up within it's area, albeit a phone job. However I don't think the outcome was that clear-cut.

Because the council used the 1976 Act to either write the condition, or bring the prosecution, the judge ruled for the driver. He did however say that the council could have done what it wanted, just not the way it did.

Maybe that's the avenue Brentwood are going down.

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IDFIMH