Taxi Driver Online

Newcastle in a quandary over cross border hiring.

The last time I spoke to Andy Gladen he was still unaware of the impact his case against Brentwood borough council is having on the rest of the Hackney Carriage trade.

In February we saw another argument unfold when Stephen Savage of Newcastle Environmental Health accused several local private hire operators of operating hackney carriage vehicles from other licensing authorities, as private hire vehicles. The charge is that hackney carriage drivers from other authorities need a Newcastle private hire driver license to conform to current private hire legislation and if no such license is in force then an offence is being committed. Mr Savage suggests that although the hackney carriage vehicle itself is not breaking the law, the driver by virtue of not having a Newcastle Private hire badge, is?

Personally I was always of the opinion that private hire legislation did not apply to hackney carriage drivers except where specified?

Newcastle licensing department suggested to me that standards in neighbouring authorities might not be as high as those in Newcastle? Perhaps the message being conveyed was more akin to the fact that the cost of a license in neighbouring authorities is relatively cheaper than one obtained in Newcastle?

Authorities such as Berwick Upon Tweed, and Eden were mentioned to name just two but after speaking with David Wilson of Berwick I'm not convinced that Newcastle's claim is necessarily correct?

David Wilson runs a tight ship in Berwick and has an impressive understanding of the laws relating to Taxi licensing. He reminded me that Taxi licensing revenue is not meant as a profit making exercise and that his authority works on the principle that revenue should be equal to the cost of the service provided.

Newcastle licensing department certainly believe they have a problem but I think the problem could be more to do with the fact they are losing licensing revenue to other authorities, rather than an inferior service being provided by Taxi drivers licensed outside of Newcastle.

Newcastle licensing department informed me they had taken legal advice on the issue and were told Newcastle "private hire" operators are breaking the law by using the services of drivers licensed outside the local authority.

I don't subscribe to that point of view but I did put it to them that if that is the case then the remedy lies is in their own hands?

When Taxi Driver online made casual enquiries with Newcastle private hire operators we kept getting the same message over and over again, that "private hire drivers previously licensed in Newcastle are taking advantage of the open licensing policy afforded to them by other local authorities in respect of hackney carriage licensing".

Newcastle operate a closed hackney carriage regime were license plates are restricted to a set number of vehicles. In order to obtain one of these licenses a person has to pay an exorbitant sum of money to an existing owner, which amounts to many thousands of pounds.

Newcastle has two types of licensed vehicles in respect of license plate values, the most expensive plates at approximately £45,000 are those attached to vehicles that were licensed prior to Newcastle removing hackney carriage quantity controls. At the same time Newcastle introduced a policy of only licensing wheelchair accessible vehicles and in turn when restrictions were re-introduced this created a second tier license plate value. A wheelchair accessible vehicle license is limited in respect that it can only be used on a wheelchair accessible vehicle. These types of licenses carry a scarcity value of some ten to fifteen thousand pounds cheaper than the more flexible saloon type license. Naturally that gap will narrow when the Government finally decides on their wheelchair accessible policy?

It is easy to see why existing and prospective private hire and hackney carriage drivers in Newcastle are turning to other authorities who offer an open access licensing policy and a better all round service that meets their needs. I don't believe it is the job of Newcastle licensing department to tell the public of Newcastle which taxi service they should use. Every Taxi service will no doubt rise or fall on the application of its own competence, no matter where the drivers are licensed? To suggest that vehicles from other authorities are not accountable is ludicrous, just because they might not be accountable to Newcastle does not mean they are not accountable to the authority in which they are licensed?

I believe David Wilson hit the Nail on the head when he wrote to all hackney carriage drivers and proprietors licensed by Berwick Upon Tweed council in December 2006 explaining the Councils position in respect of their understanding of the law. He wrote:

Licensing of Hackney Carriages and Hackney Carriage Drivers

Dear Hackney Carriage Drivers and Proprietors,

I have been asked by a member of the local taxi trade to set out, for their benefit and for the benefit of all others licensees resident in the Borough, the Council’s position with regard to the licensing of hackney carriage proprietors and drivers from outside the Borough.

The Council is of the opinion that not only is it lawful for it to grant hackney carriage driver’s and proprietor’s licences to people living and / or using those vehicles outside the Borough to undertake pre-booked hirings, but that it would be unlawful for it to refuse to grant such licences unless the applicant for a driver’s licence was not a fit and proper person or the vehicle was not fit for public service as a hackney carriage.

In arriving at this conclusion, the Council has considered legislation and case law; consulted with licensing officers and lawyers of other councils; consulted the Department for Transport; sought the opinion of a specialist licensing solicitor; considered the opinions of members of the local taxi trade; and considered the opinions of local, regional and national trade associations.

The legislation relating to the licensing of hackney carriages and hackney carriage drivers is contained in the Town Police Clauses Act 1847, which has been amended and supplemented by other pieces of legislation over almost 160 years, but most significantly supplemented by the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976.

The 1847 Act created the current scheme for the licensing of vehicles (and their drivers) that stood or plied for hire in any street in the district, which vehicles it called hackney carriages.

The 1847 Act does not restrict or prohibit the operation of hackney carriages or any other type of vehicles undertaking journeys in respect of which the vehicle and driver have been hired in any other way (i.e. not hired as a result of standing or plying for hire in any street in the district).

The 1976 Act introduced a scheme for the licensing of vehicles (and their drivers and operators) that were pre-hired, which it refers to as private hire. Section 46(1)(a) expressly exempted hackney carriages from the requirement to be licensed to undertake private hire; and section 67 expressly provides the rate of fares that hackney carriages may charge under a contract of private hire.

The 1976 Act was ambiguous as to whether a private hire operator’s licence was required before a hackney carriage could lawfully undertake private hire, but that issue was finally resolved in October 2004 when, in the case of Brentwood District Council v Gladen, the High Court ruled that a private hire operator’s licence is not required for pre booked hackney carriages.

Accordingly, it is clear that a hackney carriage can be booked for a journey that does not commence, end or pass through the district in which the vehicle and driver are licensed. Such a booking can be arranged by a person who does not require any form of licence.

Yours sincerely, David B Wilson Senior Licensing Officer

The alternative view is put by Newcastle head of public health and environmental protection Stephen Savage who argues that "the Local Government Miscellaneous Provisions act 1976 allows cars with a hackney licence to be used for private hire but the drivers themselves must have a private hire licence from the council within which they intend to work. While it may be permissible under the 1976 Act for a hackney carriage vehicle to operate as a private hire vehicle, nevertheless this council is concerned that the drivers of such vehicles do not hold a separate private hire driver's licence issued by Newcastle City Council under section 51 of the 1976 Act."

"The drivers therefore are committing an offence under the legislation."

Newcastle estimate twenty drivers from other authorities are working for seven different firms in Newcastle. A hackney carriage licence in Berwick costs £125 a private hire licence in Newcastle costs £255.

Both acts that Govern the combined Taxi trades are basically obsolete, especially the 1847 act which was designed for none other than the horse and cart. The chickens of that particular piece of legislation are well and truly coming home to roost with a vengeance in 2007. There is no doubt that apathy reigns supreme in the Taxi trade and it is noticeable that cohesion and leadership has never been a commodity that has endeared itself the Taxi trade outside of London. Government and local licensing authorities have taken a snail like approach in demanding taxi legislation be brought into the 21st century and likewise Taxi organisations such as the National Taxi Association have been quite happy to let things amble along at a pedestrian pace as long as their members can enjoy the benefits of quantity controls.

The remedy for Newcastle lies in their own hands, they can either instigate legal proceedings against those who it thinks are breaking the law, it can seek legislative change in respect of a new taxi act, or it can remove quantity controls. The decision is there's. JD

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IDFIMH

The reason I posted the above is that someone had the nerve to reply to this on another site.

Bitter if you please.


Title "Sit Down and Sort It"

The argument that Newcastle private hire companies are using hackney carriages from Berwick on their radio systems is not unique. In many areas this does happen. The facts are these:

1. A private hire radio company has to obtain an operators licence to run his premises/radio system as licensed under the "Local Government Miscellaeneous Provisions Act 1976"

2. A hackney carriage radio company does not have to hold an operators licence and is enabled under the "Town Police Clauses Act 1847" to "Undertake journeys in respect of the vehicle and driver being hired in any other way other than standing or plying for hire in any street in the district". What causes the Newcastle/Berwick issue is that the two (Private Hire and Hackney Carriage) are starting to mix together. If this was illegal then the Newcastle licensing department would have to put a stop to it by now, but they haven't. Also there is then an inference that this is happening because drivers that are licensed in Berwick will save £130.00 per year on their licensing fee. I hardly think that saving £2.50 per week will justify all of this trouble. So where do we go from here?

As usual 'JD', your constant contributor turns the argument to his advantage to call for 'A new taxi act' and to end 'Quantity Controls'. I say that this matter can be resolved by discussion and maybe it is a new area to be explored for under unmet demand in the next Newcastle or Berwick surveys. It is a problem that can be looked at and I am sure that it can be sorted.

I would like to thank JD for his article, but not everyones life revolves around deregulation and new taxi acts. So keep up the supply of info but don't be so bitter. People might think your an agitator.

Your Friend in The Trade

TS

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IDFIMH

Good that is it not!!

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

I think the latter is the best way forward.

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IDFIMH

I don't know who TS is, do, I? However to put the record straight, my article was about an actuality taking place at the present time in Newcastle and not about a hypothetical scenario that might occur at some time in the future. Newcastle council said a number of their licensed private hire operators where breaking the law, those operators believe they are not.

The only time deregulation was mentioned was in the very last paragraph when I highlighted the three options available to Newcastle council. Sitting around a table negotiating is not one of those options. Newcastle licensing department have no juridisction over vehicles and drivers licensed in another authority. A person taking a booking for a hackney carriage does not need a license, therefore Newcastle licensing department have no one to negotiate with because they have no jurisdiction over anyone involved in taking a hackney carriage booking.

As I previously stated, the only remedy for Newcastle is to take legal proceedings against those who it thinks are breaking the law or seek legislative change, or remove quantity controls. There are no other options except do nothing but perhaps MR TS could inform us of who he thinks Newcastle should negotiate and who they have jurisdiction over?

Regards

JD

I don't know what you mean by "good" but the message to which you refer shows a complete ignorance of the law. However, that is par for the course for some people.

Regards

JD

We have a problem with cars licensed in Adur working on the cities biggest firm.

Was talk of a court case.

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Unmet demand you're having a laugh

Private hire cars?

Regards

JD

I don't have a problem with drivers getting their badges and plates for nothing (no test etc) from Berwick and the like....and working ONLY from their Office.

However, as a Newcastle Hackney driver I do have a problem with a huge (and I do mean huge) amount of Berwick, Derwentside, North Tyneside etc plated vehicles picking up illegally from the streets in Newcastle - even ranking up in some cases!

Something DOES need to be done about it. I have heard through the grapevine that 6 "out of town" taxi lads did get court from Newcastle Enforcement Officers last week.

Having spoken to a private hire lad who's Office is now full of Turkish drivers on Berwick plated taxi's, he said the reason why the private hire lads NEED to flimp the City Centre is that the out of town plated vehicles are taking the work away from the Offices too.

It's a joke.....a total joke.

Well that's a good start.

TBH a row of non-local taxis must be the easiest kop that a licensing officer can have.

And the hardest kop for those taxis to get out of.

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IDFIMH

So have i got this correct, a PH vehicle licensed in area "a" can legally operate on a system in area "b"?
Is this providing the driver is badged in the area he's operating in? Or doesnt that matter either?

very confusing

As I understand it, providing the booking is made through the PH office where the vehicle is plated you can pick up in any other area that is regulated. For instance if some one rings my office and wants to be picked up at heathrow airport I can do it or if they want to be picked up at a night club in the next town, I can do this as well.

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Grandad,

Yea but i think this is a bit more than that, the way im reading it is as long as the vehicle is plated (PH) it can operate in any area providing it's on a system in the town.

Yes and no.

Basically a PH can operate anywhere as long as the driver, the vehicle and the operator are all licensed in the same area.

i.e. a Bradford PH driver can work Manchester for the rest of his life, as long as all the work he gets come from a Bradford licensed operator and he is driving a Bradford licensed PH.

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IDFIMH

A hackney is preferable in this regard because effectively you can work a radio circuit anywhere, thus it's more flexible, whereas a PH is hamstrung by the need for the three licenses to be with one council.

So if a Berwick PH wanted to work Newcastle it would have to be plated and badged in Berwick and work through a Berwick licensed operator.

Meanwhile, a Berwick HC can work in Newcastle for any circuit.

Strange, but true

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