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A Quick Question
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Author:  tcabbie [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  A Quick Question
One of my owner drivers has a PCV licence, he also has a 16 seater mini bus.

I’d like to become his agent and take work for him, cash and account.

I understand that PCV work is VAT exempt so I would have to invoice any work he did separate to the rest.

But what else would I need to do as an operator?

We have never operated anything over 9 seats before
Author:  grandad [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:49 am ]
Post subject: 
16 seater work is not VAT exempt. It is zero rated. So you still need to invoice with a VAT number but the rate is zero instead of 17.5%. :wink:
Author:  tcabbie [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:14 am ]
Post subject: 
grandad wrote:
16 seater work is not VAT exempt. It is zero rated. So you still need to invoice with a VAT number but the rate is zero instead of 17.5%. :wink:


Cheers, do you know if i need to get a PCV operators licence if so which one and how hard is it to get?
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:36 am ]
Post subject: 
tcabbie wrote:
grandad wrote:
16 seater work is not VAT exempt. It is zero rated. So you still need to invoice with a VAT number but the rate is zero instead of 17.5%. :wink:


Cheers, do you know if i need to get a PCV operators licence if so which one and how hard is it to get?


you need a CPC (or employ a CPC holder) - the course is anywhere between free and £600

then you need a O-licence (youve probably seen the required notices in the local paper) - plenty of forms to fill out, and you need to show about (not sure of current amounts) £5000 available cleared funds held for 13 weeks in the bank (the days of having a credit facility are over i think)

vehicle will (i think) be subject to 6 weekly inspections (a truck costs £35 to do) and vehicle must have a working and calibrated tacho
Author:  grandad [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:04 am ]
Post subject: 
If you are only running one 16 seat vehicle you do not need a CPC. you can run it under a restricted pcv license. The rest is about right but a credit card is still ok for the £5,000. The age of the vehicle will determine if you need a digital or anologue tacho. You will probably need a speed limiter as well. Under restricted pcv I think the vehicle inspections are every 10 weeks but you should check all of this with the traffic commisioner.
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
a restricted haulier o-licence relates only to "own good" movements, im very surpised they allow anyone to operate a PCV without one...
Author:  grandad [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
There are loads of stretched limousines and executive cars that run under restricted pcv. :wink:
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
wish id know that before plating.....
Author:  Sussex [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
wannabeeahack wrote:
you need a CPC (or employ a CPC holder) - the course is anywhere between free and £600

Do you need that on a restricted (2 vehicle max) PSV ops license? :?
Author:  Sussex [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
grandad wrote:
There are loads of stretched limousines and executive cars that run under restricted pcv. :wink:

But what % charge separate fares? :?
Author:  grandad [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sussex wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
you need a CPC (or employ a CPC holder) - the course is anywhere between free and £600

Do you need that on a restricted (2 vehicle max) PSV ops license? :?


Not at the moment as far as I know.
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Driving a mini-bus with nine seats or more, for hire or reward

In most circumstances you will need to obtain passenger carrying vehicle entitlement (PCV) which will involve a requirement to meet higher medical standards and take a further driving test. You will need to apply to your appropriate Traffic Commissioner and fulfil the necessary legal requirements. If you are being paid to drive a minibus for hire or reward under a PCV Operator’s Licence, you can only do so if you have full Category D1 entitlement obtained through the passing of the theory and practical test for this class of vehicle irrespective of when you passed your driving test to drive a car.

However, up to two vehicles each carrying no more than sixteen passesngers can be used for hire or reward under a restricted PCV Operator’s licence by a person or company that is not in the business of carrying passengers in vehicles adapted to carry more than eight passengers i.e by a taxi firm, where use of this size vehicle is not ‘regular’.

If you drive a minibus for an organisation under the minibus or community bus permit scheme, you will not need to have the higher PCV entitlements. Application can be made to a voluntary organisation that is acting as an umbrella body or alternatively the Traffic Commissioner.
PCV (PSV)

Getting a PCV driving licence (previously known as a PSV - Public Service Vehicle)

If you want a licence to drive a minibus,and you currently hold a valid full driving licence you will need to apply to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) for a provisional entitlement to drive a PCV. You will need to complete the application form D2 and the medical report form D4. These are available from the DVLA form ordering service. The D4 has to be completed by a doctor (including a doctor’s fee of £50-£70) and you will need to meet the PCV eyesight requirements. There are also requirements ie. being of good character and over 21 years of age.

The PCV (D1) driving test is conducted by the Driving Standards Agency and is similar to the test taken by coach drivers, only the vehicle you would drive is a minibus. The PCV minibus theory test costs £20.50 and from April 2007 you should expect to be asked 60 questions in 70 minutes. The pass mark for the multiple choice part of the theory test is now 51 out of 60 . You can try out practice papers to get a feel of the type of question you can expect.

The PCV minibus practical driving test lasts 90 minutes and costs £76 on a weekday or £94 on a Saturday or in the evening. During the driving test the examiner will give you directions which you should follow. Test routes are designed to be as uniform as possible and will include a range of typical road and traffic conditions. More information is available on the Transport Office website.

From September 2008 new legislation will require drivers with vocational licences (PCV D or D1 categories obtained by a separate test) to undertake additional regular training, called the Driver CPC, in order to keep their vocational licences valid. This training is to ensure that all bus and coach drivers understand their responsibilities and keep up to date with new laws and regulations.
What are the rules on drivers’ hours for minibuses.

Further information on both the EU and Domestic Drivers’ Hours Rules is published by VOSA in (PSV 375) obtainable as above.

A vehicle which is being used on a Section 19 permit is still a public service vehicle and is subject to domestic drivers’ hours rules when a person is driving in the course of his/her employment. Therefore if payment to the driver has taken place (unless it is out of pocket expenses) then domestic drivers’ hours rules apply.

Domestic drivers’ hours rules do not apply for the private use of a minibus or when permit vehicles are driven by volunteer (i.e. unpaid) drivers.

Obviously if a vehicle is being used as a PSV on a Regular Service (local/ non local) then the relevant domestic drivers’ hours rules apply (or in the case of a route exceeding 50 km, EU Hours’ Rules).

For PSV non-regular services when a minibus is being used for a non-regular national service, then domestic rules apply. For international services then the EU rules apply.

If a minibus is being used for international journeys (including private use) then EU drivers’ hours rules apply.

This Guide is only intended for general help; it is not a legal document. Therefore you should seek your own legal advice if you have any doubts with these issues.
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
no crb check for a PCV test?....tut tut
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
im amazed and gobsmacked...

so if im a taxi operator, with a plated vehicle, and do a bit of paperwork, take the PSV minibus test, i can run a 15 seater minibus with no cpc and beyond the grasp of my LA?...
Author:  captain cab [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
wannabeeahack wrote:
im amazed and gobsmacked...

so if im a taxi operator, with a plated vehicle, and do a bit of paperwork, take the PSV minibus test, i can run a 15 seater minibus with no cpc and beyond the grasp of my LA?...


I'm sure this has all been pointed out before

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