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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:18 pm 
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Just bought a 2014 Eurotaxi from Cab Direct after difficulty in finding a replacement TX4 for my TX2 (needed to be under 3 years old but couldn't afford new).

Nearly all my work is wheelchair contracts & found the TX2 to be fairly good for loading & securing the wheelchairs.......but as for the Eurotaxi (and E7 I guess), the easyglide ramp does anything but glide, in fact I had to pull it so hard today the whole ramp came out from the vehicle& was a pain to reattach. Looking at it, it appears that only 2 small metal lugs are the only thing stopping the ramp coming completely out (in my case they didn't stop it doing that!)

As for the wheelchair seat belt concoction, what a pain that is to set up and attempt to tighten. Why on earth couldn't they have stuck on an extended inertia seat belt, similar to the TX2/4? Make life so much simpler for driver & passenger.

But my real gripe......when you attach the 2 belt/clamps onto the wheelchair framework from the bulkhead, wiggle the chair about as advised & then push the switch in the drivers cabin to lock them.....you would assume the chair would be secure. But there is still free play in the 2 belts, allowing the chair to move around in the back causing all sorts of safety issues. Not only that, whilst the switch is in the locked position, if you slowly pull the 2 belts/clamps from the bulkhead, they actually extend their whole length!! I thought they were meant to be locked! (A simple manual tightening restraint strap like the TX`s would have been much better).

Is it that mine is just faulty or are they all like that? Accidents waiting to happen surely? Waiting for CD to reply


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:00 pm 
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violator wrote:
Is it that mine is just faulty or are they all like that? Accidents waiting to happen surely? Waiting for CD to reply

I think they are all like that.

To be honest I don't think they are up to doing loads and loads of wheelchair jobs.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:26 pm 
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My e7 wheelchair facility works perfectly alright,once you press the magic button the hooks become taught/tight wheelchair doesn't move.the underfloor ramp is a boon for me and my customers ,love it.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:50 am 
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Fine when you go in a straight line but once your cornering or going round a roundabout, the laws of physics tell you that just 2 hooks on the end of tightish straps are not going to stop a wheelchair moving sideways! Only a 4 point tie down system would do that (i.e all forward facing WAV`s)

BTW, found out from the horses mouth that a rear facing wheelchair carrying taxi only has to have a seat belt to be legal!! NO wheelchair restraint neccessary.......CRAZY


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:40 pm 
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violator wrote:
Fine when you go in a straight line but once your cornering or going round a roundabout, the laws of physics tell you that just 2 hooks on the end of tightish straps are not going to stop a wheelchair moving sideways! Only a 4 point tie down system would do that (i.e all forward facing WAV`s)

BTW, found out from the horses mouth that a rear facing wheelchair carrying taxi only has to have a seat belt to be legal!! NO wheelchair restraint neccessary.......CRAZY

Which horse was that?

I really think that horse has wrong answers.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:04 pm 
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What an ignorant comment Chris the Fish. When you transport passengers in wheelchairs daily for over 10 yeas you have some working knowledge about the subject, many are just not wheelchair bound but severely mentally ill with it, so its not particularly funny that your not properly secured in the taxi. Lets just hope you haven't got a relative in such a situation.

Btw, the horses mouth happens to be, amongst one, "Koller Engineering".....Try googling them.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 pm 
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Well my Wheelchair passenger experience adds up to a little over 14 years.

I carry lots of wheelchair bound passengers, sometimes 6 or 8 jobs for wheelchairs in a day.

Plymouth is 100% WAV and yet for me the provision for my wheelchair passengers was not good enough so I had a bespoke conversion done. I went through reams of regulations with the vehicle converter and have complied with them all, evidenced by the IVA which I have. I got an exemption from the local Vehicle Conditions to provide a Taxi that was better for the disabled (and gave me a good bit more space for my 6' 4" self). You can read about it here at minute 129 http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/modgov?modgo ... %3BVer%3D4

I would say that my comment is far from ignorant, on the contrary it is very well informed. Your "horse" has not however, got it right. Perhaps Koller Engineering would do well to get the regulations from DVSA on requirements for IVA and get up to speed on them.

Having followed your invitation to "Google them", I don't see that they as a company advocate a "seatbelt only" for rear facing wheelchairs. Perhaps they just need to nip round to their stable and put one of their horses fully in the picture.

I would agree on your four point security for forward facing, but facing to the rear and with the back of the wheelchair braced firmly against a properly constructed bulkhead, two straps properly tightened are adequate. A Three point belt is still a must for the occupant of the wheelchair obviously.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:58 pm 
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The fact you had to get a bespoke conversion just goes to completely prove my point, that the vehicles your council licensed were not up to the job, just as the rear facing wheelchair vehicles my council will only permit are not up to the job. What is legal and what is secure and safe are unfortunately two completely different matters sometimes. Two straps "pulling" a chair against a bulkhead through mild inertia, is not secure, especially when the only contact is usually the two ends of the wheelchair handles touching a curving plastic bulkhead (even worse when the brake levers are attached to the handles. I drive the vehicle, I know its unsafe for wheelchair transport. Escorts, carers with their foot wedged against the chair to stop it moving!

I've spoken to the guys at these firms who make the wheelchair adaptions and accessories and none manufacture this system apart from this particular company I bought my vehicle from.

So why don`t I purchase a forward facing wheelchair style vehicle that has a four point tie down? Because my council will only allow side loading rear facing transport for Hackneys to be licensed, let alone any bespoke adaptions!

Maybe go one further than google if you don`t believe these "horses" and speak directly to these manufacturing companies directly.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:48 pm 
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We seem to be arguing when in fact on most things we agree.

The "conditions" in Plymouth are actually OK for many wheelchairs. I am all for side loading, I consider "Rear Loading" a danger in itself. I have always (including before this Cab) insisted that wheelchair passengers are properly secured. Rear facing was the only safe option previously. I would agree that some conversions leave much to be desired with how the wheelchair and occupant is secured.

If a passenger wants to face to the rear, or because of the number of other passengers, has to, then I am confident that the two wheelchair restraints are, in conjunction with the bulkhead, perfectly safe. The baggage fold on the belts means I can apply a massive hold back pressure. The three point passenger belt is also used. I could use the other two restraints as well but they are not necessary.

I would be interested to see the vehicle "Conditions" in your LA, perhaps you could post a link.

As you are not happy with equipment you have, you have the option to fit an alternate, I personally like "Unwin" systems but others can be good too. You can leave the old system in or remove it. My own current one is this https://unwinsafety.com/shop/wheelchair ... t-112.html but utilises Buttons not Tracks. Fitting is relatively easy (says me, but I would have my Garage do it) as it is just four bolts right through the floor to secure the buttons (if you have a slide out ramp, that may make siting a little more awkward, but not impossible). The strap to facilitate the third point for the passenger belt is a little more awkward, but eminently "do able". The strong point in my own is shared with the Grab Handle at the rear of the nearside door. Facing backwards the strong point is the seatbelt that is there anyway for ordinary passengers.

I can't suggest anything for your handles reaching the bulkhead problem. By chance in my old Cab, by design in the new, it is not a problem I face.

So far I have not encountered a Wheelchair I can't accommodate. It will happen as wheelchairs get bigger and bigger, my space is fixed after all. I have even managed when the passengers legs are straight out in front, though one had no option other than facing to the rear.

What is often the key is to take the wheelchair out of gear (turn off power before doing this, leave it off until it is back in gear) so the chair can be turned within its own length. With it in gear this can't be achieved.

After 14 months with my Cab would I do anything differently? I would still not want the slide out ramp (as it raises the floor and so reduces head height at the door and in the vehicle) but I would look diligently for a light Aluminium full width ramp that stows easily (folds into three across its length) and I would not bother with the channel ramps. The full width ramp I had to get second hand weighs a ton but does stow well. Have I got the ideal Taxi for the disabled? No, but its close. The only problems I have had are with the vehicle (aircon, clutch etc, all done on the warranty) the disabled adaptions have been fine.

Finally, when looking at my options for the new Cab, I had discussions with several companies. I do not remember Koller being one of them, but they may have been. I went to Unwin in the end because they had a system that was ideal for me and would pass the IVA.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:36 pm 
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Absolutely!

Its great that you've been able to adapt your system professionally so its secure now, yours looks very secure, compare it to mine at the link below. Perhaps its something I`ll have to push for. Anyway, to cut a long story short, I've had to make a few adaptions myself to the set up....now I have a pretty secure system where the wheelchair will not move & the passenger feels & IS safer.........but I shouldn't have had to! My main point is that a mass produced taxi with a dedicated restraint system should be safe & secure, even if its technically legal.

With the rear loading, forward facing style, the main reason I wish our council would allow them, is that they all have a four point tie down system which equates to a very stable & secure wheelchair whilst in transport, especially when cornering.

I emailed & spoke to a guy called Wesley at Unwinsafety.....he thought it strange that there was only a 2 point tie down on my Eurotaxi & said their advice was to restrain at both front & back of the chair, then he put me through to a colleague who said he was wary of commenting on other company's products?

A lady from WAVCA initially told me it didn`t seem right that the taxi had only a 2 point tie down, then a while later told me taxi wheelchair restraints were not in her remit.....I later found out that the manufacturer of my vehicle was a member of her organisation!

The two organisations who told me about the law regarding restraint of a rear facing wheelchair/passenger in a taxi (against a bulkhead) were, as I've mentioned, Koller Engineering & also Bill Kiely of pmslonline (who provide & manufacture mobility solutions). He is an expert witness who deals with, "consultation and implementation of automotive adaptation and conversion requirements". They both told me pretty much the same thing. The law says the wheelchair PASSENGER has to be restrained by a 3 point safety belt (inertia or manual) and thats it. It is only ADVICE to have a tie down system for the CHAIR as well, be it a 2 or 4 point system. So without this, the wheelchair has to rely on its own brake system & the bulkhead & nothing else for "restraint"! And I still believe thats CRAZY!

Speaking to a few disability motoring groups, the reaction I found from them seemed to be indifference. If the law wasn`t being broken then they didn't want to get involved.

Rayggb says his system works fine, which is fine, but the "magic button" in the front that locks the restraints tight, i believe is a safety concern in itself..........Your driving along with a wheelchair customer in the back when you have a collision /accident/or anything that puts your electrics/power out.The wheelchair & passenger are suddenly trapped, as the release/tighten button is reliant on a power source to activate/deactivate it.........the consequences of this are only to obvious.

Unfortunately I can't post a link to Adur & Worthings "Blue Book" cos they're updating the site! But heres the restraint system in action at around 50 secs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YH6sFzmeBE.

If you haven't used an E7/Eurotaxi for wheelchair transport, I urge you to try one & would be interested in your opinion.
As we know the vast majority of cabbies who drive them, only have the occasional wheelchair customer, but if like me you have council, social service contracts etc for WAV work you are reliant on a top system.

Just to mention, if Id been private hire (rear or side loader) & not Hackney (only side loader), I could have gone for a 4 point tie down, ready to go vehicle.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:23 am 
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I have not driven an "E7" but my last cab was the old type Fiat Scudo.

I watched the Video and it made me cringe. In my Scudo I had a similar 2 belt wheelchair restraint, but I got the wheelchair in, flicked the switch to free the belts and attached them to the front of the wheelchair (not the back as in the video). Then switched off the belts so they would only tighten not loosen and allow (or help) all the slack back. Then I tightened to rigid on the in belt Cargo hitch. Lastly the (in those days) lap belt with extension from the tip seat lap belts. I honestly could easily get it tight enough so the wheelchair would absolutely not move.

I will see if I can sort something out for you to get the tension you need. I have some straps which I can get "D ringed" or a "ratchet tensioner" added so you can improve your passengers safety. It may take a few days.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:52 am 
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I appreciate the offer Chris, but I think my main issue is, if I introduce any new third party belts as the vehicle stands, I have nothing to tension them against. I agree the hooks should have been attached to the front of the chair for the "best" restraint in the vid, as I do.

I'm glad the video made you cringe. I think you may see where I'm coming from when I say there is basically no restraint on the chair when the vehicle is cornering/swerving.

I guess you could have a very tight/secure seatbelt, but surely the tension & force of the belt would be transferred to the customer, which has to be a no no.

I think ideally my vehicle needs 2 strips of tracking put down in the floor to the front of both front chair wheels. I could then attach the existing hooks to the rear of the chair & the new tracking & straps would be tensioning in the opposite direction, making the wheelchair far more secure!!

At the moment Im running the 3 piece seatbelt (without the section that runs from waist to shoulder, so basically a long lap belt) through the wheelchairs & tensioning with the basic seatbelt adjustor. Unfortunatly the 2 points of attachment on the floor are Cab Directs own design as far as I know & thats why I dont think I could introduce a third party tensioner, that you kindly offered.

I'm now running the middle tip up seat, seatbelt, as the wheelchair seatbelt, plus an additional standard extension, similar to what you mentioned I think.

As I say, it seems to be working at the moment, although not designed for it!!

Any other suggestions greatly received though.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:38 am 
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I think the best thing is for us to have a chat.

I will PM my phone number to you.

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