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Big problem.
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Author:  cabby john [ Mon May 26, 2014 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Big problem.
Some months ago I had the front Brake pads replaced on my 06 E7.....all ok.

I then at a later date had to take it to the garage because the back Brake shoes were binding, the hand Brake cable was also replaced.

As I drove out of the garage after having the Back Brakes sorted, I went to Brake and the pedal travelled about 30% further down than when I took it in. I phoned the garage back up explaining what had happened as it had taken me by surprise, their retort was to say that I should let them bed in and they will be alright.

A week or so later I had to return to the same garage re another car and mentioned that they still did not feel right, they said the same thing as before.

On Saturday night/Sunday morning I was doing a three point turn and noticed the Brake pedal almost went to the floor, but still managed to stop the cab [Just]. I pulled over and found that my Brake fluid reservoir was empty :shock:. I made my way to the nearest garage to purchase brake fluid and then put it into the reservoir but it made no difference. This meant it was not safe to drive so I made for home.

As I was driving for home I had to Brake, there was a clunk under the right hand side of the vehicle and my brakes failed totally - managing to slow down on gears and handbrake.

I feel that it stems from the Rear Brake job, remembering all the time that the Brake pedal from then on travelled further than when it went in.

Any ideas people.
Author:  grandad [ Mon May 26, 2014 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big problem.
I don't know what the fault is but it should be easy to spot now that the brakes have failed.
However, I would find another garage to use from now on because if I report a problem to the garage I use after any work has been carried out the first thing they say to me is "bring it in and we will take a look."
Good luck with it and I hope it doesn't cost to much.
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Mon May 26, 2014 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big problem.
you clearly have a leak

master cylinder or wheel cylinder


either way its not rocket science
Author:  cabby john [ Mon May 26, 2014 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big problem.
Quote:
Good luck with it and I hope it doesn't cost to much.


Cheers.

Quote:
either way its not rocket science


It is if you do not know what you are doing :wink:


I have never in my life had a complete Brake failure - scarey :shock:
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Mon May 26, 2014 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big problem.
cabby john wrote:
Quote:
Good luck with it and I hope it doesn't cost to much.


Cheers.

Quote:
either way its not rocket science


It is if you do not know what you are doing :wink:


I have never in my life had a complete Brake failure - scarey :shock:


with dual circuit brakes it shouldnt happen, one side front/opposite side rear should always work, im betting master cylinder failure
Author:  grandad [ Mon May 26, 2014 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big problem.
wannabeeahack wrote:

with dual circuit brakes it shouldnt happen, one side front/opposite side rear should always work, im betting master cylinder failure

If a pipe has failed then all the brakes fail.
Author:  gusmac [ Mon May 26, 2014 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big problem.
I'd guess he's got a leak at one of the rear slave cylinders.

I once saw a loose brake shoe allow the piston to be ejected.
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Tue May 27, 2014 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big problem.
gusmac wrote:
I'd guess he's got a leak at one of the rear slave cylinders.

I once saw a loose brake shoe allow the piston to be ejected.


shoe?

when was that 1960?
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Tue May 27, 2014 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big problem.
grandad wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:

with dual circuit brakes it shouldnt happen, one side front/opposite side rear should always work, im betting master cylinder failure

If a pipe has failed then all the brakes fail.


Image
Author:  grandad [ Tue May 27, 2014 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big problem.
Try un-doing a bleed nipple and pressing the brake pedal. That is the same as having a leaking pipe or cylinder.
Author:  Baconsdozen [ Tue May 27, 2014 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big problem.
Sounds like you drove away with a loss of fluid (or too much air) in one circuit hence the long pedal. this was then followed by the second circuit going the same faulty route.
You need to change your garage as well it seems.
Author:  cabby john [ Tue May 27, 2014 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big problem.
On a 12" (inch) scale I would have expected the pedal to go down around ish 3" before you could feel the bite. Coming out of the garage I would say it went down about 6" i.e half way, but sometimes on a brake change it will pump back to what it should be. The recommendation was they will bed in - so I have to listen to the pros.

I have only done probably a thousand miles if that, upon doing a three point turn the pedal went down about 10/11" on the scale mentioned - but still braked. Driving it home on gears and the handbrake, I still had to try the brakes at one stage which went completely to the floor and something gave a bang similar to the noise of a large stone kicking up under the cab, leaving me totally with no brakes, a truly horrible feeling when you are still in motion.

I belong to the AA but I was trying to avoid ringing them and wanted to get it home and on to the garage myself. Due to the fact that I live on the side of a Valley (a baby mountain to you) it is a no,no, in terms of safety to come down (no actual brakes), so I have rung the AA who will come out and probably find they cannot repair it, hopefully they will arrange a pick up to take it to the garage.

I have spoken to the garage who did the job and the person who did the job is away, in many respects a good thing as I have had some sympathy and they have said to get it down to them as soon as possible.

The AA chappie arrived, both front cylinders are leaking (Very strange it was the Rear brakes that the trouble started from), so it is down in the garage (towed by the AA), a case of wait and see.

My thoughts are that the additional pressure that I had to use to stop the cab (might have caused the front cylinders/seals/whatever to break - am I warm or off of the track.

Wannabeeahack - a nice illustration.........thank you.
Author:  cabby john [ Tue May 27, 2014 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big problem.
Okay the mystery deepens!

I am trying to keep an open mind on this.

I get a phone call from the garage to tell me to come down ASAP, as he the mechanic had never seen anything like it in 40 years - leaving me wondering as to what nasties are in store.

The cab is up on the ramp with both the front wheels off, the mechanic guides my attention to the brake pads/calipers. He claims that when he took it all apart, all that was left on the brake pad issue was the inside pads on both front wheels - no outside pad on either wheel, absolutely nothing, no base,no metal..........nothing but an empty space.

As I said I am trying to keep an open mind........so!

There are no score marks or melting on the discs, there does not appear to be any burn marks through over heating of any kind. However I am wondering is it possible for both lots of outside pads to totally break up/disintegrate, bearing in mind I did hear a bang as the brakes completely went. We also discounted the fact that the pads on either were not fitted as the calipers so I am told would have scored the discs and most certainly made a noise of some descript.

My knowledge on cars is basic, to the level of doing my own service including in the past brake pads - on this matter I am fishing in the dark, which brings me back to can they just disintegrate.

Just to clear up any possible confusion caused by me; the drivers front outside pad missing, the inside pad intact. The passenger front outside pad missing, the inside intact.
Author:  grandad [ Tue May 27, 2014 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big problem.
Something sounds really fishy now. I wouldn't have thought that it was possible for any brake pad to totally disappear let alone 2 at the same time. I have had pads where they have worn away to be metal on metal but I can't see how they could actually just come out. I don't think they were put in.
Author:  cabby john [ Tue May 27, 2014 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big problem.
grandad wrote:
Something sounds really fishy now. I wouldn't have thought that it was possible for any brake pad to totally disappear let alone 2 at the same time. I have had pads where they have worn away to be metal on metal but I can't see how they could actually just come out. I don't think they were put in.



Quote:
I don't think they were put in



That crossed my mind and I put it to him. He reckons that the calipers would have made up the slack (as they do when one side wears down quicker than the other) and scored the discs. The other thing of which you would not be aware of is that the front brakes were changed @ the beginning of Dec 2013, I have not worked much doing just over 9000 miles, they were working alright as such, upon inspection of the remaining inside pads they were showing more wear than they should for the mileage!

It sticks in my mind that a definite clunk/bump happened as the brakes failed so in many respects that might discount the above thought, Or could they have just broken up - on that I do feel more than a little bit cynical as I would have expected the metal backing to still be evident.
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