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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:49 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
it was always said that a hackney or PH out of thier own area both became PH and had to be pre-booked

A hackney is a hackney no matter where it is. But is only allowed to ply in a public place within it's licensing district. It is never a PH.


so out of its area it cannot take a flag down....or a non-prebooked job...

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:35 am 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
Sussex wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
it was always said that a hackney or PH out of thier own area both became PH and had to be pre-booked

A hackney is a hackney no matter where it is. But is only allowed to ply in a public place within it's licensing district. It is never a PH.


so out of its area it cannot take a flag down....or a non-prebooked job...


Correct.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:59 am 
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Location: Chichester
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"so how can a PHV have been "nicked" by LO's when booking thru the car window?...if the driver is the operator?..."


As I understand it, a PH booking has to be taken through a licensed (in district) PH booking office and recorded there. A car cannot be a licensed booking office, so it does not matter if the driver is an operator either.

Out of interest, at one point tonight, out of 31 "cabs" at this venue I counted 17 illegally ranked up - and the council wonder why we are p*ssed :cry: :cry: :?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:32 am 
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Doc G wrote:
Quote:
"so how can a PHV have been "nicked" by LO's when booking thru the car window?...if the driver is the operator?..."


As I understand it, a PH booking has to be taken through a licensed (in district) PH booking office and recorded there. A car cannot be a licensed booking office, so it does not matter if the driver is an operator either.



so if the owner/driver/operator (in or out of his LA) handed a punter his car, with his landline number on it, which mr punter rang, and its on divert to the car, abd a booking is made, its legal....

or he says "ok mate, 2 mins..." shunts forward, writes the booking in the book he carries, reverses to the punter.....its legal.

PMSL........crazy world... 8) 8) 8) 8)


its no different to the punter ringing our house, my wife taking the booking, then she rings me to do the pickup....

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:33 am 
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The main problem with the pre booking system nowadays is that technology has overtaken the conditions. In 1976 when the act came in there was no such thing as mobile phones so they could not be taken into consideration when the law was made. so in my opinion the interpretation of what constitutes a booking would be how it would have been done in 1976 when there was no call divert so jobs had to be taken at the office and radio'ed through to the driver or picked up by the driver at the office.
Anyone on here that drove PH before mobiles were invented? How did things operate back then?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:47 am 
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It didn`t stop East Staffs from prosecuting Rendall for answering his phone in another area where he did not have a operators licence, and yrs ago you had to return to base for the next job


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:09 pm 
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grandad wrote:
The main problem with the pre booking system nowadays is that technology has overtaken the conditions. In 1976 when the act came in there was no such thing as mobile phones so they could not be taken into consideration when the law was made. so in my opinion the interpretation of what constitutes a booking would be how it would have been done in 1976 when there was no call divert so jobs had to be taken at the office and radio'ed through to the driver or picked up by the driver at the office.
Anyone on here that drove PH before mobiles were invented? How did things operate back then?


After we dropped off the fare, we would ring the office, let the phone ring twice, then ring back again, if any jobs in the operator would answer right away, no jobs phone would ring at least 4 times. Worked a treat and cost nowt!, had to find a phonebox tho.
Then we got radio's and thought we were like Star Trek :D

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:07 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Anyone on here that drove PH before mobiles were invented? How did things operate back then?


OK. I'll admit to that, I'm not proud.

I started part-time in the PH trade in 1973, before the LG (MP) Act 1976. Ahhhhhhhh........., those were the days!!! I remember I drove a metallic dark green Vauxhall Ventura VX 4/90 3300cc automatic to begin with. Loooooovely car, purred along ….. & the poke ,,,,,,,,,,,,

Then after I middled a bus with that beautiful motor & wrote it off, I became the proud owner of …………. a slate grey Triumph 2.5PI automatic. I still remember the Regd No. AAW 994L. The Triumph 2.5PI was the first British car with Petrol Injection, as it was then called, when they first came out in the tail-end of the last millennium. Now the Ventura was a statesman like car, but this 2.5 PI was raw muscle & power. In those days it was fast; 0-60 in 9.7 secs. I retro fitted one of the first electronic ignition systems ever made to that car; a Lucas system that involved throwing away the contact breakers (points to all you grease monkeys) inside the distributor & substituting a ‘helicopter type’ blade (fixed onto the centre shaft) that had the equivalent number of blades on it that your car had cylinders. This blade then rotated through an electronic beam which created a very much enhanced spark, so the PI went even faster. The problem was that being the first petrol injection system on the market it was a mechanical system & very prone to going out of tune & required constant setting-up & re-tuning. Average fuel consumption was just 14mpg & if you thrashed it around town (& it was very nippy for a reasonably big car), you could, if you tried, get 9mpg.

After the Triumph 2.5PI auto, I had a beige Simca 1301 & got married.

Anyway, enough reminiscing; back to your question. I worked on PH from 1973 to 1979, when I became a licensed Hackney driver. It was a different ball game then, totally unrecognisable from today’s high technology systems that the trade now uses.

When you started work & left home you needed to make sure that you had enough coins for telephone calls to last you for the whole shift. I think it was a two pence piece for a call from a public telephone box in those days, but I may be wrong. And the two pence piece & public telephone box then, was equivalent to your dispatch system of today. There were no two-way radios in those days at the PH firm that I started with, but they soon came on the market for those concerns that could afford them.

So the first thing I did when I set out for work was to phone the base, tell them where I was & they would give me a job that was the nearest to me that they had, & you wrote the details down on a piece of paper. But, the base operator soon became much more efficient. When you phoned in they would give you two jobs instead of one. The first one was usually quite a short job with the pick-up quite near to the driver’s public telephone box location & the second job to follow on to, was near to the drop off destination of the first job. So, that way the whole PH firm became more efficient. Except, there were problems. Mrs Smith who you picked up first from the Co-op (everyone shopped there because you got a divi; like today’s Tesco, Asda or Sainsbury, but an awful lot smaller), had changed her mind & instead of going home now wanted to go & pay Mrs Brown a visit. And Mrs Brown lived a few miles from where you were supposed to be picking up Miss Nuthurst, your second run-on job. So after uniting Mrs Smith & Mrs Brown, you had to tear-aser over to pick-up your second run-on passenger, but now you were late. Often by the time you arrived to pick-up your second passenger, they had either been picked-up by one of your colleagues, or you arrived just in time to see them getting into another car.

So in the days before the 1976 Act came in, you certainly had to have your wits about you. When you were taking a passenger to their destination & didn’t have a follow-on job, you would always clocked all the public telephone boxes on the way, so that you knew which was the nearest to the drop off, & get round to it asap to call base for your next job. And in the days pre-mobile phones, it was very common to arrive at a public telephone box to find it being used & a queue of perhaps several people before you all waiting to use the telephone. So now, you had to try & remember where the next nearest phone box was & shoot round to there, hoping it was not in use & so on. In those days public telephone boxes were not vandalised as much as they are today, because most people relied on them, & as they were almost in constant use, this gave little opportunity for them to be abused. You always asked any passenger that you were dropping off if they wanted a further booking that day or perhaps the next, wrote it down & passed it to the office, either in your next telephone conversation with base, or when you got back to base. The work was almost non-stop in those days, with very few quiet periods as we have now. So, you worked by using public telephone boxes, guile & ingenuity.

As I said, those were the days!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:25 pm 
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Brummie .... you forgot to mention that all the local hard cases never expected to pay.... you had to persuade them they were wrong.. and what did you have under your seat.....

One of the best things was.... a block of Fairy soap inside a football sock...... if the police asked you what you're doing with that, the answer was it's just part of the washing.. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:43 pm 
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MR T wrote:
Brummie .... you forgot to mention that all the local hard cases never expected to pay.... you had to persuade them they were wrong.. and what did you have under your seat.....


Used to driver THE hardest case in Brum regularly to the club that he owned, 'The Garryowen'.

He got in the car, never spoke a word to any of the drivers, got out at his club, paid you & went in. He never drank alcohol, but sold the stuff to all & sundry comers, even in those days to all hours of the morning every morning. How he did it in those days & got away with it, only he knows.

A man of very few words, but a gentleman boxer. He always paid you & if you carried any trouble either from or to his club, he made sure you got paid. If you took somebody home from his club & they didn't pay, he would know who it was, because he was always on his own door. If he was a regular at the club, our private hire firm would get a call a day or two later, when the non-payer was next at the club. All the owner would say was, tell so-and-so driver to collect his money from the club for the unpaid fare the other day & you would go & get the money from him.

They don't make them like him any more. He stood no [edited by admin] from his customers whatsoever. You could drink all night long at his place, but start performing & you were out, usually flying thro' the air out of the front door.

Those were the days!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:46 pm 
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yes those where the days ....

The Hackney's in Sefton had radios in 1960 . and the Sefton private hire with radios were going strong roundabout 66/67... it must taken a few years to work its way up to Birmingham... and the only thing we used telephone boxes for was to block the line of a rival company.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:11 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
so how can a PHV have been "nicked" by LO's when booking thru the car window?...if the driver is the operator?...

I suspect he was done for 'touting'.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:13 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
so out of its area it cannot take a flag down....or a non-prebooked job...

Yes and maybe(ish).

On private land, away from the public highway, hackneys can ply outside of their licensing district i.e Birmingham Airport judgement.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:16 pm 
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Doc G wrote:
As I understand it, a PH booking has to be taken through a licensed (in district) PH booking office and recorded there. A car cannot be a licensed booking office, so it does not matter if the driver is an operator either.

The way I read the act is that a booking must be taken by a licensed operator. It doesn't say it must be via their office.

So I take the view that a booking can be taken by a licensed operator in his vehicle.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:18 pm 
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Quote:
You must not draw attention to yourself as being available for hire. Any
act or gesture accompanied by a conversation with a member of the
public suggesting you are available for hire without a prior booking from
your licensed operator will be seen as unlawful.


This is the crucial bit - if the "offense" was random, for example the driver was approached after just dropping, then the business card / ring the office scenario would (probably) just about at least look legal.

The problem in my area is that PH and out of area Hackneys are RANKING - mixed in with local, and legal, Hacks.

Absolutely no question of "randomness", they are deliberately advertising themselves by being in the queue.


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