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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:39 pm 
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toots wrote:
How do you propose that the film be collected to rid iffy drivers from the trade.

Make it a condition of license, that the CCTV must always be working, and can only be accessed by the police, the council or the independent installer.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:15 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
toots wrote:
How do you propose that the film be collected to rid iffy drivers from the trade.

Make it a condition of license, that the CCTV must always be working, and can only be accessed by the police, the council or the independent installer.


I suppose that is possible but do you believe it will get rid of iffy drivers. Do you not think it is better to prevent iffy drivers from joining the trade rather than trying to get rid of them after they have joined. Surely prevention is better than cure and how many of these cameras do you reckon may get stolen or damaged who will then replace them :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:21 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
its odd that a trade where "london" cabs can have a shield between driver and passengers, and the driver neednt wear a seatbelt simply due to the chances of being attacked is so half-hearted about a security CCTV being fitted....


That's because not wearing a seat belt doesn't cost any money. I've always wondered why HC's drivers never needed to wear a seat belt when they have passengers in case they are attacked cos I'm kind of at blank when I think about how exactly the customer gets to them :? Unlike PH where the customer can quite easily restrain the driver, makes you think sometimes what people are thinking about when they make these stats.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:33 am 
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But, the central question that was posed: Why is NVQ a scam?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:01 am 
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cabbyman wrote:
But, the central question that was posed: Why is NVQ a scam?


That I am waiting to still have answered thanks for bringing it back to the forefront :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:08 am 
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toots wrote:
I suppose that is possible but do you believe it will get rid of iffy drivers. Do you not think it is better to prevent iffy drivers from joining the trade rather than trying to get rid of them after they have joined. Surely prevention is better than cure and how many of these cameras do you reckon may get stolen or damaged who will then replace them :wink:

Not only is it possible but it's already operating in a few places.

TBH I can't understand why the hackney trade, in areas where PH illegal pick ups is rife, haven't already demanded it. :?

Or maybe they themselves have something to hide. :-$

Prevention is indeed better than cure, but enforcement is better than all of them put together. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:22 am 
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Quote:
Not only is it possible but it's already operating in a few places.


At whose expense?

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TBH I can't understand why the hackney trade, in areas where PH illegal pick ups is rife, haven't already demanded it.


I don't see how cctv inside a vehicle will help with what is going on outside a vehicle unless it can be pointed outside the vehicle to collect information and my knowledge of cctv is limited to it being activated when doors open and passengers get in

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Prevention is indeed better than cure, but enforcement is better than all of them put together


I personally have no problems with enforcement they can stop me whenever they like as I don't pirate but I wonder if they have the funds to provide the amount of officers required to make enforcement effective

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:24 am 
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Nigel wrote:
I notice they've mentioned the NVQ scam.


Is there any chance you might explain why you think it is a scam?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:47 am 
toots wrote:
Nigel wrote:
I notice they've mentioned the NVQ scam.


Is there any chance you might explain why you think it is a scam?


The guy who's doing it round our way has got 40 drivers signed up at £1,500 per driver, the course lasts for 4 weeks, the first week you do a 2 hour course then it's half an hour once a week for 4 weeks. I looked at one of the packs that the drivers were given it didn't relate to Taxi Driving. He asked me why I wasn't taking the course? I said I've been driving cabs for 20 years can you teach me anything? I also asked him if he was up to date with the Town Police clauses act and the local Government miscellaneous act? He said no I'm not. I asked him what he could teach us? He said to be a good driver, FFS is that all?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:12 am 
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come on guys, we all know the real reasons CCTV is taboo

"Human Rights" and Data protection - to name two

also, i bet any recordings would get thrown out of any court case if used as evidence


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:22 am 
wannabeeahack wrote:
come on guys, we all know the real reasons CCTV is taboo

"Human Rights" and Data protection - to name two

also, i bet any recordings would get thrown out of any court case if used as evidence


We got a grant from our Council for the CCTV, it came from the livability fund after some pressure from the trade because the night buses had been fitted with CCTV free of charge. The drivers have no access to the data which is on the HD, if there is a incident we have to to take the vehicle to the CCTV control room at the council offices so they can access the HD. We have no access to it at all.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:40 am 
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i think the stickers alone could be as effective to be honest...






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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:16 pm 
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CCTV is a extremely useful tool......... when it is switched on....... everybody should have the choice of having them in their own vehicles..... as for who pays, surely that is down to the Trades ability to negotiate, from my own knowledge the only places that have refused CCTV have done so because the application was tied up with the council funding them.
As for CCTV being made compulsory ( where as a driver would be prosecuted for not having it on) strikes me as over the top( control-freak syndrome).... at the end of the day I suppose it boils down to what price you place on your own safety. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:29 pm 
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toots wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
its odd that a trade where "london" cabs can have a shield between driver and passengers, and the driver neednt wear a seatbelt simply due to the chances of being attacked is so half-hearted about a security CCTV being fitted....


That's because not wearing a seat belt doesn't cost any money. I've always wondered why HC's drivers never needed to wear a seat belt when they have passengers in case they are attacked cos I'm kind of at blank when I think about how exactly the customer gets to them :? Unlike PH where the customer can quite easily restrain the driver, makes you think sometimes what people are thinking about when they make these stats.
toots.. you have to remember when the law was made... how many years ago.... and the vehicles that were in operation at the time.... as you know Hackney's can be both saloon and purpose built... I remember about 15 years ago a friend of mind was trapped by his seatbelt in his FX 4 while they held him at knifepoint until he gave them his night's takings, they still slashed him...they used to put their hand through the sliding window behind the driver's head and grab the seat belt.. thereby imprisoning the driver against the petition and the second one would jump out and open the driver's door and he would place a Stanley knife against the drivers face

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:27 pm 
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Nigel wrote:
toots wrote:
Nigel wrote:
I notice they've mentioned the NVQ scam.


Is there any chance you might explain why you think it is a scam?


The guy who's doing it round our way has got 40 drivers signed up at £1,500 per driver, the course lasts for 4 weeks, the first week you do a 2 hour course then it's half an hour once a week for 4 weeks. I looked at one of the packs that the drivers were given it didn't relate to Taxi Driving. He asked me why I wasn't taking the course? I said I've been driving cabs for 20 years can you teach me anything? I also asked him if he was up to date with the Town Police clauses act and the local Government miscellaneous act? He said no I'm not. I asked him what he could teach us? He said to be a good driver, FFS is that all?


I understand why you think it's a scam is this not provided through a proper authorised college. Do you not have to have 10 hours with an NVQ assessor (who is from the trade). People can offer all kinds of courses it is up to the LA and the driver to check that the course being offered in their area is up to scratch. At level 2 it probably won't include too much of the legal stuff it is definately more of a health and safety with customer services based course but of course you can go as far as level 5 with nvq's and thats degree level and covers quite a lot. You should check that the awarding body is aware of the lack of standards this guys offering and make the LA aware of it too. Also is there no provision in your area for the costs to be paid for you.

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