Taxi Driver Online

UK cab trade debate and advice
It is currently Fri May 01, 2026 1:23 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 72 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:11 pm
Posts: 8119
Location: A Villa in Aston NO MORE!
Sussex wrote:
We all know the law, or at least we should all know the law, but it appears that some hackneys on circuits don't know you can't ever exceed the metered rate within your manor.

And it appears that 'test purchasing' has got legal approval, which is a good thing for good folks, and a bad thing for bad folks.

http://www.instituteoflicensing.org/art ... d+for.html

Be interesting to read the full judgement when it's published.

After a quite lengthy discussion with the owner of the taxi firm involved in this case, it would appear that the IoL article is allegedly a little mis-leading.

And it would appear that we, including me have all 'got the wrong end of the stick' ..... slightly.

Big, big post to follow, but this IS a B to C job, where A is the taxi base, B is the pick-up point in a rural location & C is the destination.

A, B & C are all within the prescribed distance / licensing authority's area.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:11 pm
Posts: 8119
Location: A Villa in Aston NO MORE!
captain cab wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
Surely it does not need to be published ..... won't this be case law & therefore enforceable by the courts?

I dont really see what you mean.....the driver broke the law......unfortunately doing what is a common practice in many areas.

CC

My mistake ..... of course you are correct ..... the law is already there & does not need case law to verify it.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:11 pm
Posts: 8119
Location: A Villa in Aston NO MORE!
The article on the IoL web-site gave me the impression & I suspect may others (judging by the posts on this topic) that this case had gone to the divisional court by way of appeal, after the decision of the Stratford-upon-Avon Magistrates’ Court.

Wrong!!!

Indeed the IoL article does state;

‘These questions were settled by Lord Justice Sullivan and Mr Justice Openshaw in the divisional court in a case stated from Stratford on Avon magistrates’ court.’

Wrong again!!!

I have now been reliably informed by the owner of the taxi firm involved, that the council took the case to the divisional court for judicial review. The judicial review was against the Magistrates’ Court decision which was included in the IoL article & stated;

‘They also decided to exclude the officer’s evidence under section 78 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 as the driver had been persuaded to commit the alleged offences and the officer’s evidence was unfair.’

From what I have been told, it is would appear that because of this action by the Magistrates’ Court the council were successful in their judicial review. All that seems to have happened is that the divisional court has given a judicial review judgment in favour of the council, for the case to be re-heard by a different bench at Stratford-upon-Avon Magistrates’ Court, but this time to include the officer’s evidence.

It appears that the divisional court did not agree that the officer’s evidence should have been excluded in the Magistrates’ Court. Therefore, it seems that all that has happened in this case is NOTHING.

The case now starts afresh in the Stratford-upon-Avon Magistrates’ Court at a future date which is yet to be fixed.

It’s only 23 miles down the road from me & I’m going to have a listen when it come up.

PS. Talk about journalistic licence! The Institute of Licensing appears to now license journalists too.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:11 pm
Posts: 8119
Location: A Villa in Aston NO MORE!
What is confusing about the IoL article is that it talks about the divisional court & then later about the High Court.

In the divisional court part of the article it mentions the Magistrates' Court decision to exclude the officer's evidence & then when it goes onto the High Court part of the article it mentions intricacies of secion 67 & the Hackney Carriage driver in question & what he should have known etc.

Also, this appears to be the second such case in the Stratford-upon-avon area; the first being an independent HC who did the same.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:26 pm
Posts: 8529
I seem to remember reading a case on entrapment, it took place in Wales, regarding using licensing officers..... they were found to be breaking the law.... most councils now use volunteers from orther departments... as they do not have a particular advantage regarding the law over the driver in question. I think I would be re reading the laws relating to entrapment.
:lol:

_________________
Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57350
Location: 1066 Country
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
Interestingly, I was also told that a fighting fund is being / has been set up to take the matter further to Judicial Review, the belief being that the hiring was of a Private Hire & not a Hackney Carriage nature.

Please tell them not to appeal on that basis. [-o<

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57350
Location: 1066 Country
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
My view on the red bit above is that the only way to LEGALLY charge extra for the ten mile run-on to do a two mile job is to have a set telephone booking fee ON THE TABLE OF FARES & charge it on the extras.

My view is that the meter could be started from where you got the booking from, as you were then contracted to do the job i.e. hired.

Not sure that would go down well in urban areas, but if a punter in the sticks is willing to pay the running too price, then IMO that's legal.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57350
Location: 1066 Country
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
The article on the IoL web-site gave me the impression & I suspect may others (judging by the posts on this topic) that this case had gone to the divisional court by way of appeal, after the decision of the Stratford-upon-Avon Magistrates’ Court.

Wrong!!!

Indeed the IoL article does state;

‘These questions were settled by Lord Justice Sullivan and Mr Justice Openshaw in the divisional court in a case stated from Stratford on Avon magistrates’ court.’

Wrong again!!!

I have now been reliably informed by the owner of the taxi firm involved, that the council took the case to the divisional court for judicial review. The judicial review was against the Magistrates’ Court decision which was included in the IoL article & stated;

The case was 'case stated'.

In other words the council didn't appeal, they just requested a higher court look at it again. The higher court has deemed what the law is now, and it goes back to the mags court for them to decide on the issues at hand, with the now correct updated law.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130
Sussex wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
My view on the red bit above is that the only way to LEGALLY charge extra for the ten mile run-on to do a two mile job is to have a set telephone booking fee ON THE TABLE OF FARES & charge it on the extras.

My view is that the meter could be started from where you got the booking from, as you were then contracted to do the job i.e. hired.

Not sure that would go down well in urban areas, but if a punter in the sticks is willing to pay the running too price, then IMO that's legal.


I may not have your experience but to me that is just wrong. They may have rand days before so do you start the meter when you get the call because as you say, "you were then contracted." :roll:

The driver was contracted to pick up at point B at a certain time and that is where the job starts and it ends when they arrive at point C.

_________________
Grandad,


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57350
Location: 1066 Country
grandad wrote:
I may not have your experience but to me that is just wrong. They may have rand days before so do you start the meter when you get the call because as you say, "you were then contracted." :roll:

Are we talking morally wrong, or legally wrong?

The former I agree, the latter I don't. :wink:

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:37 pm
Posts: 187
Location: brighton and hove
I would had thought it was a telephone booking from an office and not a off the street hire. Which turns that into a private hire job, whether a hack or ph cover that job still doesn’t need to have the meter on as it was a set fare.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130
meltingsmoke wrote:
I would had thought it was a telephone booking from an office and not a off the street hire. Which turns that into a private hire job, whether a hack or ph cover that job still doesn’t need to have the meter on as it was a set fare.


Behave yourself mate. A hackney doing a private hire job within the prescribed area can't charge more than the metered rate. I thought that was agreed. The bit that hasn't been agreed is the point that the meter can be turned on.

_________________
Grandad,


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57350
Location: 1066 Country
meltingsmoke wrote:
I would had thought it was a telephone booking from an office and not a off the street hire. Which turns that into a private hire job, whether a hack or ph cover that job still doesn’t need to have the meter on as it was a set fare.

A taxi is always a taxi, and must always adhere to whatever local taxi rules apply.

The nature of the hiring is irrelevant.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:37 pm
Posts: 187
Location: brighton and hove
what a mess , they should had sent a ph to cover that one :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57350
Location: 1066 Country
meltingsmoke wrote:
what a mess , they should had sent a ph to cover that one :)

Maybe it's a 100% taxi fleet. :?

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 72 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 168 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group