Taxi Driver Online

Yorkie always quotes European Law, and quite rightly as it superseeds our own.

The point I was trying to make is that we need new laws relating to taxis in the UK, not more laws written in Brussels.

Much has been said tonight about the "tory's" promises on immigration, I agree that this, on its own has nothing to do with taxis, but if the tory's get in and bring in such a policy it will recieve angry responses from Brussels, I think it was said we need to do whats right for Britain and that will do for me.

I am a Labour man and a trade unionist, but when I vote next time I will have to consider which "tory" party I will vote for as "new" Labour are more tory than Thatcher.

Judging by what was said on "the voice of reason" Mr James Whale's radio show tonight many people are having similar thoughts.

Sorry I went a bit off track, getting tired a bit cause i'm used to being able to think before posting, posts are coming to fast for me, time I think for a tinny.

B. Lucky

It is obvious you haven't read the list or you wouldn't say that. I suggest you download the list from the link supplied by TDO, it quite clearly states what the list is about. It also quite clearly refers to saloon plate values in unrestricted authorities that have a high entrance level for Wheelchair accessible vehicles.



So if you think local authorities are best placed to form local policies why the hell are you trying to get their policy of de restriction reversed. I'll tell you why, its because you don't like democracy. The local council has implemented its stated policy but because Mick doesn't like it he's throwing a tantrum.

I can't blame you for wanting to re instate your vested interest and if you had your way there would probably still be 215 owners sat on a waiting list for Hackney carriage plates.

You can't handle competition so you ask the council to give you a helping hand by restricting numbers. I don't mind you saying there are too many cabs and you can't make a living, but there comes a time when you have to accept reality. The problem you have is not that you can't accept reality, it is the fact you won't.

JD

Wrong asumptions again.

When the council derestricted it did not do so because it wanted to, it did so because a court told it to, it hasn't re-restricted because it doesn't want to it hasn't for fear of another legal challenge which will cost them heavily.

I don't understand why you would applaud a council that derestricts but only allows brand new WAVs, but when I call for higher standards you state I'm opposing competition.

The fact is that you want the door open wide enough so you can get in.

You state I'm this that and the other, but you don't know me you only see the persona I show on here, therefore you couldn't possibly know what I think. Maybe I'm outrageous on here to guage opinion on a certain viewpoint, maybe I only put forward the views of the members of the branch for the same reason. As I said I come on here to learn, something you have contributed to and I thank you for it.

Where are my many oscars, I would like them now please.

B. Lucky

If a court told Gateshead to de restrict, then there must have been a reason. The fact is, you have asked Gateshead councillors on several occasions to re restrict numbers, simply because you don't want anyone else picking up off the street and it sticks in your craw because for whatever reason they have told you take a hike. That's what you call democracy if you didn't already know.

Your attitude is to restrict numbers because Mick says Cab drivers can't make a living. That may or may not be the case but it generates the sympathy vote from some apathetic councillors and that's what you're looking for.

The problem with you is and it's a big problem from what I can see, is that you want equality for yourself but you don't want anyone else to have it.

I've been fighting all my life against inequality and you epitomise everything that's evil in it. Unlike you I don't demonstrate against councils for one option or the other, I let them get on with it and if they decide to regulate or de regulate then that's fine by. You have a one-track agenda and that is restricting numbers and let anyone who wants to enter the trade pay to get in. You might try and spin something different but you have laid down your marker of intent on countless occasions on this website and its come back to haunt you.

You may say you have had a change of mind on certain issues but it's a convenient excuse when you are caught out in an inconstancy.

Perhaps you might better serve the taxi trade in Gateshead by applying for the vacant post of licensing officer, that way you might be able to influence councillors into restricting numbers.



I don't applaud anyone, I let councils get on with making policy I don't try and influence councils with bullchit. I inform everyone of the current trends in those councils that are changing policy in favour of de restriction or restriction, something that "everyone else in this trade has neglected to do". The Information that comes from my keyboard isn't tainted with a vested interest, it is fact, whether people like it or not.


Put it this way, I suspect I have been in the Taxi trade and held a proprietor's license probably longer than most people on this site. The fact that I don't support the bullchit that emanates from certain quarters of the trade just goes to show what a free thinker I am. You can't brainwash me with bullchit because I know a dam sight more than "most" people in this trade.



I'm on record as saying I admire anyone in the trade who gives his time and energy for free. I don't discriminate on that fact, it goes for anyone, regardless of what opinion they hold.

You are right in the respect that I don't know you and likewise you don't know me, therefore I can only comment on what you say and the impression you give. I have never done anything else but comment on your statements. I don't need to get personal its not my style. You put yourself down by the contradictions you make, you don't need me to do that.



Your Oscar will be coming soon enough, I'm working on the categories right now. You must realise, I have a busy agenda.

Anyway good luck, I suspect you are a decent guy and you only mean well. Like I said, I admire anyone who gives his time for others regardless of his point of view.

Best wishes

JD

It may have escaped your notice but I'm not a plateholder now, so to state I want equality for myself but no-one else doesn't make any sense. By re-restricting I would be excluded from obtaining a plate for "free" should I choose to return to the trade.

What I want is a well balanced industry where people can phone an operator or walk to a rank and be able to get a vehicle without having to wait an unreasonable time for it, regardless of their physical or mental condition.

I don't agree that PH drivers should be forced to do a job when it comes to carrying identified individuals, but when an operator enters into a contract with an establishment he needs to ensure the drivers on his fleet will not encounter any difficulties. The problem is that from any establishment you get good and bad punters, its part of the job, not the best part I agree but a part all the same. The problem I had with that story was the "punishment" dished out for refusing a job from a well known trouble spot, I suppose though that it shows that each individual case should be judged on its own merits and no blanket agreement can be reached by anyone other than those directly involved.

I would like to see the problem of pre-booking reliability sorted out as I believe we need to offer an alternative to the HC, even though I accept that in some areas many more taxis are also needed.

We need to make sure we provide the services which meet the demands of our customers (Yorkie taught me that), and not just provide the services we want to. Just having a HC plate doesn't automatically deliver the services the customer demand or require, it only delivers what the driver desires. I don't believe that the OFT intended its investigation to be hijacked in this way, maybe thats why it lost so much credibility.

Anyway, the bottom line here is that I learn something new every time I log on, as I did with TTF and T&PH. If your suggesting that, with all this extra information it would be better to not to allow it to influence my opinions just in case my posts appear contradictory in the years ahead is very wrong and against what forum sites like these were intended to do.

B. Lucky

No, it has not escaped my notice that you are a non-plate holder, I've known that for quite some time. In fact you will be surprised at what I know about Gateshead, even though I don't mention it.

Gateshead however, is not on my agenda. I take no comfort in reminding you of your past inconsistencies. In fact I'm sure this site has had enough of your belligerence in trying to incorporate Gateshead plate values into my list of unrestricted councils.

It's about time a man of your intelligence saw the light and realised what this database was all about. If you represent a group of people like you say you do then you should surely display a modicum of intelligence. That is what sets you apart from the rank and file. So far you have displayed a complete lack of understanding with regard to what I am trying to do. I don't think it is ignorance on your part I think it is the fact that you are argumentative.



I couldn't give chit what you want or anyone else wants, what you want is "Restriction" you have said so time and time again, and if you like I'll post every sentence you ever uttered with regard to restriction, so don't try and bull chit me.

Either say it like it is or don't say it all. I've had more than a belly full of azzholes who think they know it all. At the end of the day all they want to do is stop other people from gaining access into the Taxi trade and you my friend are one of those people, even though you don't like to admit it.

JD

Why then are you wasting so much time on here, just write your mutterings in "word" and read them yourself.

If you couldn't give a "chit" what people want mate you wouldn't be on here, you like me are canvassing opinion, so don't run off in tears when you get it.

Post every word I've ever written you arrogant t***, I admit to have changed my opinion on issues so you pointing them out just makes you look a clown.

With regard your list, publish the [edited by admin], leave out information that doesn't suit your argument but do not come crying on here like a spoilt brat when what I have pointed out as prospective shortcomings are used to discredit not only the piece but also yourself.

There is always one, biting to have a go at me, sure I enjoy and welcome it but to be honest I have better things to do with my time than spend them in an argument about something I made a mistake about because I was ignorant to other areas situation. I have said throughout that I have learned from my earlier mistakes through the experiences written about on here, you sir don't accept that amongst other things and by doing so you appear as foolish as I was then, the differance is that my opinions have changed, I doubt you have the guts to change yours.

B. nah [edited by admin] sod off,

[

lol My god man I do believe you are losing it!

I don't believe my time on here is wasted. It serves the trade in the wider sphere of education. You yourself said you have been enlightened by my knowledge no doubt others have felt the same enlightenment.

Your problem is that you don't like a dose of reality and neither does anyone else who likes to restrict numbers, that's patently obvious.

What you can't countenance is the fact there is someone far more intelligent than you who can see through your charade of restricting plates. Up here in Manchester I've seen the plates double since the 70's but I don't go around screaming lets put a cap on numbers. In contrast every other sentence that comes from your lips, is let's restrict numbers. That's the only solution you have.



If you don't already know my list is about those councils who restrict numbers. Seeing as Gateshead no longer restricts numbers they don't fit into the criteria. That may come as a surprise to you but never the less it is a fact.

Best wishes

JD

It seems quite obvious what the list is about Mick. Although JD is not formally part of TDO, we've always been happy to publish anything credible on the frontpage, and although that invitation was put on record several times, very few people took up that offer, although that is of course a different issue.

But if the piece wasn't credible then it wouldn't be on the site, but I can't see anything significant that detracts from its credibility.

The bottom line is that the list is one of LAs that restrict HC numbers and a related list of plate values within these LAs, where JD has been able to find relevant and credible information.

Gateshead doesn't restrict HC numbers, so it isn't on the list. It may restrict saloon HC numbers, but that's a different issue, albeit a similar one.

As for the ommission of saloon plate values in places like Gateshead that doesn't restrict HC numbers overall but does restrict saloon HC numbers, again that's a different but related issue, but the commentary accompanying the list is quite clear insofar as it recognises that in such locations saloon plates may retain a premium:

Should a council decide to lift numbers and go for a policy of Quality rather than Quantity control, plate values will no longer be of relevance, except in the circumstances where H/C "saloon" vehicles are currently licensed. What transpires is that Saloon vehicles could retain a small plate premium because in some cases it is cheaper to buy an existing plated saloon vehicle, than a new quality expensive WAV vehicle.

So I'm quite sure that everyone is aware of what the list of restricted counils amounts to, and there is enough commentary on that issue and also the more limited list of plate values to inform readers that there are other issues (such as saloon plate values in Gateshead and elsewhere) which are clearly related to the paper's remit, but are outwith its scope.

I too think the values retained by saloon plates in otherwise restricted areas is an interesting topic, and one ever really recognised by any official utterance by government (or at least central Government), but given the difficulty of compiling the list as it is, it is clearly better to concentrate on the wholly restricted authorities. After all JD did say to you a week or two ago:

Now if you want to make a database of saloon vehicles that enjoy a plate value in unrestricted authorities such as yours, then by all means do so.

Getting reliable information for the lists is clearly a difficult enough task (which is one reason we've never attempted it ourseleves) without constant carping and criticising on points which have been addressed several times in the past, and this post in fact merely summarises the various arguments that have been put to you when you have raised the issue of the list's credibility.

But I suspect your problem is the subject matter of the document per se, and not its credibility as accurate information.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

European competition law is generally only applicable where it affects trade between states, for example a large continental company which trades in many member states.

UK competition law applies to domestic issues, for example the price-fixing on football shirts highlighted by the OFT a couple of years ago.

However, there is clearly scope for overlap between the two, and indeed the UK Competition Act took its main provisions from EU competition law, namely the cartel provisions and the 'abuse of a dominant position' aspect.

Also, in general terms competition law doesn't apply to regulatory authorities, or taxi quotas would have ended years ago.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Precisely what are the facts about saloon plate values in Gateshead Mick?

Although I've never doubted that they exist, I've always had some doubts about them doubling in value in recent years.

However, there are two big problems in places like Gateshead as far as plate premiums are concerned.

First, there are less than a hundred plates, which means that there will be very few transactions, so there will never really be anything like a proper market established - it takes lots of transactions to develop a properly functioning market.

The second big problem is information for the market, including any risk in the purchase of the plate, what precisely the cost savings might be, and also the difficulty of putting a monetary value on preferring to drive a saloon over a WAV, for example.

So obtaining proper values for the buying and selling of plates in Gateshead is clearly a difficult area. If you ask dealers to value a rare antique, for example, they'll probably give you all sorts of values, some high, some low, and some may say it's worth jack.

Similarly, even given the amount of second hand cars on sale, and the amount of information on prices available, when buying one many people still have to rely on third party information such as Glass's Guide, but there's nothing similar for taxi plates.

So clearly valuing saloon plates in Gateshead is a difficult area, particulary when there are few transaction - in a big city such as Manchester plates are likely to be transacted more often and thus a more informed market will develop.

So someone may try to sell a plate for £10k in Gateshead, but this doesn't mean that it is worth it, but is the asking price because the seller is overvaluing it in good faith, or because he thinks he might hoodwink someone who doesn't have a scooby?

On the other hand, a clueless new driver could come along, hear about taxi plates at £50k in other areas, and assume that £10k is a bargain.

So in a market like that for Gateshead saloon HC plates, it's unlikely that it will ever be established what the plates are actually 'worth', but it's clearly open to anyone to offer to buy or sell one for as little or as much as they want, but like buying a car or an antique, you could overpay or underpay for it.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

What are the current standards for both drivers and vehicles in Gateshead?

regards

Captain cab

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

The driver has got to have two legs, and the motor four wheels.

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IDFIMH

I wouldn't flatter yourself to much JD, I said the site has educated me and as part of it you can only claim a small amount of credit. The facy of the matter is that I have learned more on taxis forums generally from one man, that man being Sussex.
I have also learned more from Yorkie and Dusty Bin (TDO) than I have from you mate, Captain Cab is even ahead of you and I don't mean any disrespect to him.



Double in 30 years, that'll do me mate, we have seen plate numbers triple in 6 years, your suggestion that the effects are the same are bollox.

B. Lucky

I can only tell you my story TDO.

1995 - I bought a saloon plate £5,500 without a vehicle.
2002 - I sold the saloon plate £6000 without a vehicle.
2004 - The person who bought the plate sold it for £13250 with a Vauxhall Vectra.
2004 - The previous chair of the association approached the same person who bought the car and plate and offered him his plate without a car for £12,000, he refused but offered a straight £10000 for the plate alone, that saga continues.

The extra £3250 was obviously paid for the car, 10 months test, 4 months tax, meter, topsign and both parties were happy with the deal.

It is fair to say then that from the time I bought the plate involved values have nearly doubled, the money I paid was to enter a restricted market the last time the plate was sold it was sold into a drestricted market.

Sellers of plates value their plates at whatever the last one sold fetched, whether it would be sold for less depended on how much the seller was willing to accept, but this bloke is still buying plates for £10k whenever they come up.

B. Lucky