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If Scotland were to gain independance from the rest of the UK, please enlighten me as to where they will get all their revenue from to pay for all the services that they will have to pay for? I may be wrong but as far as I am aware the 2 main sources of revenue would be North Sea Oil, which will run out in a few years time and the duty on Whisky, which will be reducing because people are drinking less due to health concerns.

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Grandad,

But Scotland would have to rejoin the EU, wouldn't it, and new members are expected to join the eurozone, aren't they? And that's even assuming the EU would let it in, with some opinion thinking that France and Spain would veto an application because that would encourage their own separatist movements.

Of course, there may be respected legal opinion to the contrary, but the SNP are refusing to publish the legal advice it received, because it wouldn't be in the public interest

And a few days they were citing the late Labour politician Robin Cook in support of their view, but unfortunately had misquoted him:

What the SNP claimed Robin Cook said:

“It’s in the nature of the European Union, it welcomes all-corners and Scotland would be a member."

What Robin Cook actually said:

"It's in the nature of the European Union, it welcomes all-corners and Scotland would be a member. That's not the issue. The issue is what is the price at which Scotland becomes a member of the European Union. I do not for one moment believe that other countries of the European Union would allow Scotland to retain the budget rebate from which taxpayers in Scotland benefit. A more serious issue is how you play your hand in future issues within the European Union. I have not the slightest doubt that Scotland does better as being part of a major player in the EU."

A few years Scottish oil is to keep flowing until 2050 and that is not including the reserves of oil and gas west of the Hebrides.
Take Norway with a population of 4.9 million they are sitting on an oil pension fund of currently around £300 billion and projected to grow to 36%. I wonder what this fund will be in 39 years time in 2050.So after the oil runs out and that’s IF the revenue will certainly continue to come in. In that time Scotland will develop renewable energy and will provide %10 percent of Europe’s renewable energy another sources of income.Scotland exports most of its whisky and yes Scottish whisky provides another 1 billion a year in tax revenues to Westminster .
Not to mention the £100 million plus we would save on not having trident and the priceless saving of lives of our armed forces by fighting in illegal wars .

O yes DUSTY BIN we would be treated differently from England not , we would be treated the same way as Sweden . I am sure the legalities will all become clear in time .

Yes, that is less than 40 years from now and then you would be pleading for money from England.

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Grandad,

You really should have read all of my post would have stopped you from looking silly .

Yes, that is less than 40 years from now and then you would be pleading for money from England.[/quote]

You really should have read all of my post would have stopped you from looking silly .[/quote]
I think you are the one that looks silly. If Scotland were independant They would be broke within 50 years.

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Grandad,

I'm for retaining the Union.

It's a lot easier to blame all our ills on Westminster.

The Politicians are much the same whichever System you chose ~ All out to feather their own nest. p.s. I'd probably do the same thing if I were in their position.

Just a thought: As "They" allowed Blair & Brown to run the Union. Would we be prepared to elect Milliband and Harman to run Holyrood?

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Don't dream it ~ Be it.

Stationtone writes:



If Salmond and his entourage were any different to that nest of vipers down south he would be banging the drum about transparency and accountability all the way to the polls. As for the political system, as I said before, the democratic system ( FPP or PR) is fine, in principle, but without transparency and accountability, it doesn't mean a thing. Your elected politicians can do what the hell they like, and if you vote them out, you get more of the same back in. And you think independence will change all of this, dream on.

Show me how independence will make politicians directly accountable to their electorate, and you've got my vote, but I bet you can't.

What you need is an independent body with the power to audit and make information available on request with politicians held directly accountable for their decisions. None of this, FOI, nonsense they do their best to wriggle out of, everything open and above board.

Remember the banking crisis, the bail-out and the fat cat pensions,the parliamentary expense's scandal and Liam Fox, the Defence secretary resigning after revelations involving his “advisor” (bum-chum) Adam Werritty, the front companies, the "donations" and meetings with lobbyists while flying all over the globe “representing” the people of this country.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kin ... es_scandal

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011 ... ox-resigns

And you Stationtone, imagine everything would be different through independence just because that's what you want to believe.

Oh and you can argue all you like about whether or not, Scotland, would be better off financially through independence. The truth is, if it all goes pear-shaped Salmond and his gang will just start pointing fingers and filling their pockets. It won't be their failures it will be ours, as we will be the ones who pay.

Skull i do not agree with your view but it is one that can be debated unlike some other views by others in this thread .Those who say Scotland needs England to survive are really needing to read the facts ..

Oil will run out, and remember it maybe logistically off the Scottish coast but it's giant international firms that own the rigs and do the getting it out of the ground, if you look at it long term Scotland will be destitute by the end of this century if it goes Indy, it's a lovely notion to be able to be a self sufficient nation but the reality is it's all based on a fluid that is in it's dying days and another fluid that rots internal organs.

Like I said I'd love for you to achieve it, but only if you are going fully solo and don't drive down with the cap in your hand, reality is I think you'll just become Wales MK2 eventually, and they are skint over there.

Tone, without transparency the system fails because the electorate can't have an informed view or hold their politicians to account. This isn't my view. It's a simple fact. What, vote them out after four years to do the same again in another four years and so on and so forth, and this is how we make those elected accountable and democracy works for the people?

A system is a set of processes, which together creates a mechanism that delivers a specific outcome. If you remove certain processes, transparency for one, the system fails to deliver. Why, because there is little or no way to hold your politicians to account, hence, no real democracy.

It's not an accident the system is the way that it is, as politicians and their executive don't want to be held accountable.

And you think the above will all change if we have independence?

Have a wee look:


http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/s ... _1_1960200

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/ ... _1_1960242


Tone, I know how the propaganda machine works and how easy it is to be taken in by it all, but stand back and think about the above before telling me you don't agree with my view. If you can think for yourself, you should be agreeing with every word, and then looking forward to influencing change by challenging those that want your vote.

I bet the Norwegians are sh*tting themselves at this moment......every country the SNP claims Scotland would be like come independence manages to go t*ts up within months.

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I'm not against Independence per se, but democracy in its present form only benefits those in big business and politicians. Give me a “Government of the people, by the people, for the people” and you have my vote, but more of the same, no thanks.

Until you address the flaws in the democratic system power lies not with its people but with the new gang, you are proposing to vote in.

Oh and Tone, I am not making any of the above up and if anything, you should be on my side.

I think i am going to change my initial thread headline