Taxi Driver Online

Who runs council Hackney carriage policy? Taxi owners, or elected councillors? What would you do if you were a councillor and a taxi owner came up to you and said you can't deregulate numbers because I have just spent 50 grand on a plate? Would you say tuff luck? Or would you say something else?

JD

I would point out to him/her all the lads on the waiting list that have just been queue jumped.

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IDFIMH

same. plates are issued for free at the councils discretion to the next person on the waiting list. this is known by all those on the waiting list. if somebody is willing to give away 50K to jump the queue then that is on their own head.

Surely anyone looking to come in to the trade in the last 12 months would have done a bit of research before hand, you'd be silly to pay good money for a plate after reading what is going on all over the country regarding de-limiting.

if the person is pee'd off at the fact he's paid 50K for something you can now pick up for free, then then he should be pee'd off with the person he just gave 50K to, not the council. as i'm sure the seller would have known full well what was just about to happen in his manor.

Sould the council not have a duty to advise the "new" plateholder of its intentions.

B. Lucky

I suppose until a committee decides to change a policy, then they can't really declare anything. Fettering descretion and all that lark.

A sensible council/councillor might point people in the direction of government's statements, guidance and general trade trends, but if I was a councillor I wouldn't want to advise people on anything that I'm not 100% ok with.

And how many councillors are ok with 1% of what we do?

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IDFIMH

What YOU do Sussex.

I say that because it differs greatly from what the majority do.

B. Lucky

So you agree with what your councillors have done to your trade then?

How times change.

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IDFIMH

If I was a councillor and a person came up to me and said I've just spent 50 grand on a Taxi plate, does that give me the right to influence council policy? I'd tell him, the transaction you made was between you and the person who sold you the plate, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the council. We make the policy, you abide by the rules.

Regards

JD

If you were a Councillor F***IN hell don't make me laugh

I suppose this is (yet) another hypothetical 50K plate. Like a Gryphon or a Unicorn. Everyone has seen one, but nobody can show me one. I'm going to City Hall tommorrow to renew my plate for another year. It's not my plate though. It's the Council's plate. It say's on the plate "PROPERTY OF CITY OF LINCOLN COUNCIL" Which means they let me use it if I play by their rules. Yes, I could pay £115 tommorrow and transfer "ownership" at the same time for any amount I could get, but that's not going to happen. Is that because I live in the real world? If I were a councillor, and you told me you had paid 50 grand for something you did not own, I'd take you for a viewing of our fine Cathedral, to see if I could sell you it. The view, not the Cathedral. Caveat emptor, as lawyers say.

I honestly don't know what you are saying here jimbo? Are you saying you know plate values in restricted authorities exist? Or are you denying they exist?

Regards

JD

I am saying JD, that if you can "sell" a plate you don't own, I can sell a spectacular view of a Cathedral. Council's own plates, proprietors lease them.

It does go to show how naive councillors are though. You would think they it might have dawned on them that rather than just issuing new plates to the next ("boy" sussex?) on the list,that they could make a few bob, (or Grand, or 50 Grand), by having a plate auction themselves? If the Mancs auctioned, rather than gave away 25 plates a year, they could make a Million for the ratepayer.

I think it might be best put by saying that Councils issue Taxi plates and have the right to take them away, if and only if an offence has been committed under the terms of the said license.

I understand the term you are referring to and that it is an accepted fact that a council owns the license but it should not be forgotten that a council only has the right to take that license away under certain circumstances.

The point I raised was "should a council be influenced by someone who has paid X amount of pounds for a license" and should that person have a legitimate expectation of influencing a council's policy because of his financial involvement?

In your own words "caveat emptor" would most definitely apply under this circumstance.

We are all aware that any reform creates winners and losers. Under such circumstance the loser would undoubtedly be the person who had paid X amount of pounds for his license, the winners would no doubt be those people who harboured expectations of entering a restricted market and in most cases the general public.

Just to finish off, I would just like to mention two appropriate cases that put to rest the self-denial that plates do not have a value. I do not believe you are in total self-denial that plate values exist but saying show me the money, might infer that you are?

In the Wirral case, Mark Royden claimed the following in court.

Mr Royden submits that he had a legitimate expectation of proper consultation arising from previous practice, from an express promise made by Ms Miller on or about 14 February 2002, or in her letter to the claimant dated 15 March 2002. And from the fact that a decision to "de-restrict" hackney carriage vehicle licences would affect his livelihood and "remove the capital value of the premium of some £15,000". This is normally payable by the transferee to the licence holder on the transfer of a hackney carriage vehicle licence.

Another case in point is that of the Dublin Taxi driver's challenge to de-restrict the trade on the grounds that it led to existing licenses losing their restricted resale value.

The case failed and the court pointed out that plate values prior to de-restriction had been created solely by Government legislation. Therefore, when new government legislation removed that value the Dublin Taxi drivers could not reasonably claim that their property rights had been unjustly violated.

So there you have two recent cases laid out in for you in black and white where claimants had taken specific legal action to protect their plate value. It must be said that in the Wirral case, It was also stated in court that it would also effect Mr Roydens livelyhood.

Need I say more?

Regards

JD

Not in denial, JD, just have not seen a 50K plate, so not sure they exist. I've said before, I bought my plate, in a legitimate sale. I could, but won't sell it tommorrow. If the value dropped to zero, it would not affect my ability to making a living from it. I know this to be true, because that was i'ts precise value for several years in the Nineties. If I had to hand it in to the council when I decide to retire, I could live with that too, because it earned i'ts keep many years ago. I sleep soundly at night knowing my plate will never be worth a vast sum, and not worrying at all if it should end up being worthless. I've had twenty years out of it, and goodness knows how many more to come. Putting a value on a plate is like putting a value on your family. Some value these things more than others.