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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:42 am 
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gusmac wrote:
Labour's brass neck over steel contracts
Sun, 04/03/2012 - 15:12

Attacks by Labour over contracts for the new Forth bridge have boomeranged after it emerged that the procurement regulations used to award them were actually implemented under the former Labour/LibDem Scottish Executive.

Highlighting EU procurement law, introduced in 2006, which forbids the Scottish Government from discriminating in favour of Scottish companies, SNP MSP for Edinburgh Western Colin Keir pointed out the absurdity of Labour's attacks given that no Scottish bids had even been received for the contracts.

Mr Keir also reminded Labour that the SNP had introduced Community Benefit Clauses to ensure training opportunities and, in addition, that the Forth Crossing is the first project to insist all subcontracts are advertised on Public Contracts Scotland - ensuring Scottish suppliers have access to every opportunity.

Labour's hypocritical attacks on the Forth crossing contracts come a week after the MoD announced that contracts for the next generation of Royal Navy support tankers have been awarded to firms in South Korea, instead of Scottish shipyards, under a tendering process started under the last Labour government and that Labour-led Strathclyde Passenger Transport awarded contracts for the regeneration of Glasgow subway to a Czech firm.

Mr Keir, who this week revealed that nearly 400 people are already employed directly on the site of the new crossing including many of his own constituents said:

"This is an embarrassing boomerang attack by Labour who seem to have forgotten that they actually introduced the procurement rules under which these contracts were awarded.

"EU procurement law, introduced in 2006, clearly forbid the governmentfrom discriminating in favour of Scottish firms. If any governmentin the EU did what Labour wants they would find themselves in court facing huge fines. That point aside, the fact is that no Scottish firms even submitted tenders for the steel fabrication subcontracts.

"Labour have a very short memory when it comes to their own record - just last week the MoD announced that the contracts for the next generation of Royal Navy support tankers have been awarded, under a tendering process started by Labour, to firms in South Korea, instead of Scottish shipyards. If Labour want to be taken seriously they need to start being honest with people.

"The FRC is the biggest transport infrastructure project in Scotland for a generation and is being built on time and on budget. The main Forth Replacement Crossing contractors have confirmed the project is currently directly employing 384 people on site, and at its peak the project will directly support 1,200 jobs. These figures don't take into account the significant number of people who will be working for the 222 Scottish firms - and that figure is expected to grow significantly over the coming years- currently working in the subcontracting and supply chain for the project.

"As of 15 February, the three main contractors appointed to deliver the project have advised Transport Scotland that around £23 million of subcontracts have already been awarded to Scottish companies and around £13 million of supply orders. We are currently 10 months into a 6-year construction period and there are many more subcontract and supply order opportunities to come - but already 222 Scottish firms have risen to the challenge of working on this iconic project, and 870 out of 1,041 supply orders awarded on the Principal Contract have gone to Scottish companies: 84 per cent of the total.

"We are only 9 months into a 6 year construction period and there are many more subcontracts from the Principal Contract to come.

"The SNP Government is committed to ensuring Scottish firms continue to benefit from the FRC. But it is utterly ridiculous that Labour - who hail themselves as the party for workers - are advocating a plan that would see hundreds of jobs lost."

Note:

EU procurement law clearly requires that we cannot discriminate in favour of Scottish Companies - that is not new law, it was in place prior to devolution and the first time that there was a major revision of EU procurement law post-devolution was in 2006 when the previous administration implemented the Public Contracts (Scotland) Regulations. The FRC contract is fully compliant with those regulations.
http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/20 ... -contracts


Thart'll be the morally corrupt scumbag Cllr Colin Keir MSP would it? Well well. Haven't heard for the bar steward since he was elected msp, but now there's an election looming he's crawled out from under his stone.

But just to demonstrate how thick this basterd is:-

As of 15 February, the three main contractors appointed to deliver the project have advised Transport Scotland that around £23 million of subcontracts have already been awarded to Scottish companies and around £13 million of supply orders.

This is a teardrop in the total contract that is worth £1.3 BILLION. Let me say that again for the hard of thinking Nasties. The contract is worth £1.3 BILLION.

If you guys are gonna try to score points, at least make them credible.

Of course, what's revealing is what these plicks don't say. Like the steel contract going to China and Germany.

We've got a scottish government bleating about green emissions targets, way in advance of anything any other nation is committing to, while we're exporting our pollution to China, who will produce the steel for our bridge, spewing the sulphur from coal fired power plants to make it.

This is hypocrisy.

They get the steel contract and we get ...

... a couple of pandas.

The band of brigands in Holyrood should be strung up for selling us all down the river. And you bozos want us to trust our future to them?

It's like them ramming us and we drop our drawers so they can ram us more easily again.

Before they achieved power there was some mystery about the Nasties. Now they've got power that mystery has gone. We now all know they truly are nasty.

:evil:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:39 am 
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Quote:
Thart'll be the morally corrupt scumbag Cllr Colin Keir MSP would it?

The very same. :wink:
I see your opinion hasn't changed :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:07 am 
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Since his very name makes you see RED, I'll repeat the important bits without it.

Quote:
Highlighting EU procurement law, introduced in 2006, which forbids the Scottish Government from discriminating in favour of Scottish companies, SNP MSP for Edinburgh Western ******** pointed out the absurdity of Labour's attacks given that no Scottish bids had even been received for the contracts. .

Quote:
Mr **** also reminded Labour that the SNP had introduced Community Benefit Clauses to ensure training opportunities and, in addition, that the Forth Crossing is the first project to insist all subcontracts are advertised on Public Contracts Scotland - ensuring Scottish suppliers have access to every opportunity.


Quote:
Labour's hypocritical attacks on the Forth crossing contracts come a week after the MoD announced that contracts for the next generation of Royal Navy support tankers have been awarded to firms in South Korea, instead of Scottish shipyards, under a tendering process started under the last Labour government and that Labour-led Strathclyde Passenger Transport awarded contracts for the regeneration of Glasgow subway to a Czech firm.


Quote:
Mr ****, who this week revealed that nearly 400 people are already employed directly on the site of the new crossing including many of his own constituents said: "This is an embarrassing boomerang attack by Labour who seem to have forgotten that they actually introduced the procurement rules under which these contracts were awarded."



Jasbar wrote:
As of 15 February, the three main contractors appointed to deliver the project have advised Transport Scotland that around £23 million of subcontracts have already been awarded to Scottish companies and around £13 million of supply orders.

This is a teardrop in the total contract that is worth £1.3 BILLION. Let me say that again for the hard of thinking Nasties. The contract is worth £1.3 BILLION.

If you guys are gonna try to score points, at least make them credible.

Of course, what's revealing is what these plicks don't say. Like the steel contract going to China and Germany.


Now which bit don't you get? The contracts had to go out to tender and international tenders could not be ignored., a fact which has been conveniently ignored by Labour.
It's pure hypocrisy, since labour brought in the rules governing these contracts and they are well aware of EU procurement law.
As for the subcontracts, they likewise go to the cheapest bidder. No shock if they were outbid by foreign labour.
They couldn't have done it any different if they were in power.

Are they or you saying that the Scottish government should have just ignored EU law and labour's own procurement rules? :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:48 am 
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Jasbar wrote:
Private Reggie wrote:
John Swinney said and i qoute: Without independence Holyrood faces years of Cuts from Westminster.

A no vote will change nothing for the better, things will only get worse, a YES vote will change everything, a fresh start in my book and there is no better time to do it than NOW.

Jasbar you are all Presumptions, your views have no Substance its all scaremongering, cheap political tactics in my book, i do think you are not even looking at the real debate, your views are all made up in your head

VOTE YES :D

Just remember how after the vote in 1979 the Tories made Scotland pay and boy did we pay :evil:


Grow up dougie ffs.

You saying that in the midst of the world's deepest global recession in living history, and probably even beyond that, faux-independence is going to deliver us from cuts?

You're a fecking lunatic sure enough.

If that's the best you can come up with, butt out.

:roll:

Yes im saying we can save Scotland from Draconian Cuts, i provided the link, not my words but words i fully respect and trust :D

You say Butt out :shock: If you don't want to play because you are stuck in a corner then go on RUN :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:12 pm 
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Private Reggie wrote:
Jasbar wrote:
Private Reggie wrote:
John Swinney said and i qoute: Without independence Holyrood faces years of Cuts from Westminster.

A no vote will change nothing for the better, things will only get worse, a YES vote will change everything, a fresh start in my book and there is no better time to do it than NOW.

Jasbar you are all Presumptions, your views have no Substance its all scaremongering, cheap political tactics in my book, i do think you are not even looking at the real debate, your views are all made up in your head

VOTE YES :D

Just remember how after the vote in 1979 the Tories made Scotland pay and boy did we pay :evil:


Grow up dougie ffs.

You saying that in the midst of the world's deepest global recession in living history, and probably even beyond that, faux-independence is going to deliver us from cuts?

You're a fecking lunatic sure enough.

If that's the best you can come up with, butt out.

:roll:

Yes im saying we can save Scotland from Draconian Cuts, i provided the link, not my words but words i fully respect and trust :D

You say Butt out :shock: If you don't want to play because you are stuck in a corner then go on RUN :lol: :lol:


Which shows how little you really know Dougie. Independence will cost us more. Just through loss of economies of scale alone.

But if you know better than me, the do something you've singularly failed to do so far. Explain to us how faux-independence is gonna stop us from suffering the savage cuts?

:lol:

I can't wait for this .....


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:17 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Since his very name makes you see RED, I'll repeat the important bits without it.

Quote:
Highlighting EU procurement law, introduced in 2006, which forbids the Scottish Government from discriminating in favour of Scottish companies, SNP MSP for Edinburgh Western ******** pointed out the absurdity of Labour's attacks given that no Scottish bids had even been received for the contracts. .

Quote:
Mr **** also reminded Labour that the SNP had introduced Community Benefit Clauses to ensure training opportunities and, in addition, that the Forth Crossing is the first project to insist all subcontracts are advertised on Public Contracts Scotland - ensuring Scottish suppliers have access to every opportunity.


Quote:
Labour's hypocritical attacks on the Forth crossing contracts come a week after the MoD announced that contracts for the next generation of Royal Navy support tankers have been awarded to firms in South Korea, instead of Scottish shipyards, under a tendering process started under the last Labour government and that Labour-led Strathclyde Passenger Transport awarded contracts for the regeneration of Glasgow subway to a Czech firm.


Quote:
Mr ****, who this week revealed that nearly 400 people are already employed directly on the site of the new crossing including many of his own constituents said: "This is an embarrassing boomerang attack by Labour who seem to have forgotten that they actually introduced the procurement rules under which these contracts were awarded."



Jasbar wrote:
As of 15 February, the three main contractors appointed to deliver the project have advised Transport Scotland that around £23 million of subcontracts have already been awarded to Scottish companies and around £13 million of supply orders.

This is a teardrop in the total contract that is worth £1.3 BILLION. Let me say that again for the hard of thinking Nasties. The contract is worth £1.3 BILLION.

If you guys are gonna try to score points, at least make them credible.

Of course, what's revealing is what these plicks don't say. Like the steel contract going to China and Germany.


Now which bit don't you get? The contracts had to go out to tender and international tenders could not be ignored., a fact which has been conveniently ignored by Labour.
It's pure hypocrisy, since labour brought in the rules governing these contracts and they are well aware of EU procurement law.
As for the subcontracts, they likewise go to the cheapest bidder. No shock if they were outbid by foreign labour.
They couldn't have done it any different if they were in power.

Are they or you saying that the Scottish government should have just ignored EU law and labour's own procurement rules? :roll:


yes Gusmac, we klnow how and when the rules were established. But two things:-

First, these rules exist to be circumvented.

Second, It's not the fact that the contracts were awarded abroad that is thee real issue, it's that the bozo creep Keir is seeking to take credit for such a paltry amount coming back to our economy, and the fact that he obviously thinks we're gonna be duped by his meanderings. That's the quality of the man, that's the total disdain and lack of respect he has for us, else he wouldn't dare to come out with such a pethetic statement.

And that's the quality of out-of-control politician we'd be stuck with under faux-independence.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:21 pm 
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Sorry Jasbar, I don't see Keir taking credit for anything.
Just someone pointing out the sheer hypocrisy of the accusations being peddled around by labour. A labour party desperate for anything to attack with.

And if these rules are made to be circumvented, why weren't they circumvented by the MOD or Glasgow council?

Whatever you think of Keir, don't let it cloud your judgement.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:14 pm 
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Shattering the Myth :wink:

http://www.thesaint-online.com/2012/03/ ... -the-myth/

Here is something for you to MULL over Jasbar :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:28 pm 
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Private Reggie wrote:
Shattering the Myth :wink:

http://www.thesaint-online.com/2012/03/ ... -the-myth/

Here is something for you to MULL over Jasbar :lol: :lol: :lol:


Would you still like me to put a case for independence, i don't think so, how could i compete with that article, please read the article again Jasbar i can vision you Squirming in your seat :lol: :lol: :lol:

Skull come out to play, C'mon you know you want to :lol: :lol: :lol:

VOTE YES :D

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:31 am 
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Private Reggie wrote:
Shattering the Myth :wink:

http://www.thesaint-online.com/2012/03/ ... -the-myth/

Here is something for you to MULL over Jasbar :lol: :lol: :lol:


Dougie, you're missing the point here.

I don't care whether you think Scotland could stand alone as a country under present conditions. It's what would happen in the future that is important. A small country in the large European Pool would be slaughtered, and economically is the least important. We would have no say whatsoever in the way our wee nation is shaped. These decisions would be taken by faceless unelected buraucrats in Brussels. And they would be taken to protect the engine room of the EU, France and Germany, certainly not little old us.

Even you must be aware of the considerable democratic deficit in the European Union. We've fought two world wars, lost millions of our young men and women to avoid descending into that mire, and you want us to vote willingly for it. Are you completely insane.

What we have in the Union is not the best. But we have a chance to make it better, because at least we pretend to have some degree of accounability, and if we could mobilise our countrymen to get off their butts and exercise their rights, then we would have a chance to make it better.

Faux-independence would render this impossible. We'd be under the yoke of the Europe we've long resisted.

As for the so called economist spouting his shecht in your piece, I have no truck with so-called experts. I'm minded of the so-called experts who told us during the burgeoning years there was no demand for taxis, yet other so-called experts managed to find a demand for 30 cabs in the midst of the worst recession we've ever known.

What really concerns me though Dougie, is that you spout your support for faux-independence yet, like your denial of worker's their rights, you don't have an original thought in your head, rather you simply recycle the shecht you think supports your narrow, self-interested views.

Grow up Dougie. FFS. You're a crashing bore.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:49 am 
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Quote:
We would have no say whatsoever in the way our wee nation is shaped.


We would have more say than we have at the moment.

Quote:
We'd be under the yoke of the Europe we've long resisted.


We are already, in fact we are under 2 yokes.

Quote:
As for the so called economist spouting his shecht in your piece, I have no truck with so-called experts. I'm minded of the so-called experts who told us during the burgeoning years there was no demand for taxis, yet other so-called experts managed to find a demand for 30 cabs in the midst of the worst recession we've ever known.


And you accuse us of letting sentiment rule our heads :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:08 pm 
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Jasbar im posting facts concerning the case for independence but your argument for the union centres around handing over power to Europe instead of the union, its my belief if we join the EU and only after another referendum the political power we will have based on the amount of energy we could produce, Scotland will have an equal standing and not only within the EU but potentialy worldwide, i base that statement on the presumption that if Scotland's power could be connected within Europe to the African Solar Programme, the two combined could produce all of the Worlds energy needs, at the moment Scotland can produce 25% of all Europes energy needs but trust me the technology is not that far away to connect to the biggest renewable energy programme known to man, i believe what i hear and read as the writers and talkers are world renowned in their feilds, you on the other hand as an advocate of using the European Human rights act to de-restrict the taxi trade have a problem with Scotland going down the European road once independence has been won, a bit hypocritical me thinks, Jasbar your not in the debate you only spout pash and time and again, your not interested in reading the facts and figures, you don't seem to grasp that all the unionist political parties have no argument to defend the union other than the romantic argument, where as us Nationalist's have in your words all the tools of the trade.

Keep trying though :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Private Reggie wrote:
if Scotland's power could be connected within Europe to the African Solar Programme, the two combined could produce all of the Worlds energy needs, at the moment Scotland can produce 25% of all Europes energy needs but trust me the technology is not that far away to connect to the biggest renewable energy programme known to man


:lol:

A bit rich to accuse others of using 'romantic' arguments, Reggie?

In fact I think calling your argument romantic would be being charitable :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:07 am 
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Private Reggie wrote:
Jasbar im posting facts concerning the case for independence but your argument for the union centres around handing over power to Europe instead of the union, its my belief if we join the EU and only after another referendum the political power we will have based on the amount of energy we could produce, Scotland will have an equal standing and not only within the EU but potentialy worldwide, i base that statement on the presumption that if Scotland's power could be connected within Europe to the African Solar Programme, the two combined could produce all of the Worlds energy needs, at the moment Scotland can produce 25% of all Europes energy needs but trust me the technology is not that far away to connect to the biggest renewable energy programme known to man, i believe what i hear and read as the writers and talkers are world renowned in their feilds, you on the other hand as an advocate of using the European Human rights act to de-restrict the taxi trade have a problem with Scotland going down the European road once independence has been won, a bit hypocritical me thinks, Jasbar your not in the debate you only spout pash and time and again, your not interested in reading the facts and figures, you don't seem to grasp that all the unionist political parties have no argument to defend the union other than the romantic argument, where as us Nationalist's have in your words all the tools of the trade.

Keep trying though :wink:


I bet your English, if he or she could be bothered to read this tripe, wished that you'd kept "trying" as you put it.

Anyway what you're saying is airy fairy.

Even if we could produce 25% of Europe's energy requirements, do you honestly believe the other nations would allow us to? You really believe that Dougie?

In any case, if we really could do it under the yoke of Brussels, then there's no reason we couldn't do it from our position in the union.

Now get my position right Dougie. I'm not saying that independence may not be the best way forward for Scotland.

But what's on the table is NOT independence. It's simply a transfer of power from one power base to anothe one.

Think of it like a tenant being allowed to change his landlord.

Nothing more, nothing less.

He would still be a tenant, but the new landlord would be able to rewrite his tenancy agreement.

I see no difference with faux-independence.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:32 pm 
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Jasbar wrote:
Private Reggie wrote:
Jasbar im posting facts concerning the case for independence but your argument for the union centres around handing over power to Europe instead of the union, its my belief if we join the EU and only after another referendum the political power we will have based on the amount of energy we could produce, Scotland will have an equal standing and not only within the EU but potentialy worldwide, i base that statement on the presumption that if Scotland's power could be connected within Europe to the African Solar Programme, the two combined could produce all of the Worlds energy needs, at the moment Scotland can produce 25% of all Europes energy needs but trust me the technology is not that far away to connect to the biggest renewable energy programme known to man, i believe what i hear and read as the writers and talkers are world renowned in their feilds, you on the other hand as an advocate of using the European Human rights act to de-restrict the taxi trade have a problem with Scotland going down the European road once independence has been won, a bit hypocritical me thinks, Jasbar your not in the debate you only spout pash and time and again, your not interested in reading the facts and figures, you don't seem to grasp that all the unionist political parties have no argument to defend the union other than the romantic argument, where as us Nationalist's have in your words all the tools of the trade.

Keep trying though :wink:


I bet your English, if he or she could be bothered to read this tripe, wished that you'd kept "trying" as you put it.

Anyway what you're saying is airy fairy.

Even if we could produce 25% of Europe's energy requirements, do you honestly believe the other nations would allow us to? You really believe that Dougie?

In any case, if we really could do it under the yoke of Brussels, then there's no reason we couldn't do it from our position in the union.

Now get my position right Dougie. I'm not saying that independence may not be the best way forward for Scotland.

But what's on the table is NOT independence. It's simply a transfer of power from one power base to anothe one.

Think of it like a tenant being allowed to change his landlord.

Nothing more, nothing less.

He would still be a tenant, but the new landlord would be able to rewrite his tenancy agreement.

I see no difference with faux-independence.

How the feck could we do it from within the British union, the Mc Crone report, you have read it :roll: The British government would syphon the revenue in one way or another, the only way is to control the wealth as an independent Nation and invest that money in education, job creation/training etc and a better way of life for all to benefit from, even you in your old age will benefit or are you fliting south :lol: :lol: :lol:

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