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Andy7
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:36 pm 
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Location: Essex, England
Totally agree with your point Captain Cab. Only thing is, that there was no private involvement in ordering the two specific items I cited.

While personally, I don't think its any better to waste public funds on public services that have no demand, it can only be far worse to take public funds and put them in private pockets as unearned profits.

It was however, The Government who ordered both the Beyond London Eurostars, and NightStars, AGAINST the specific advice of the then BR management. Both were built due to political interest (mostly by Lib Dem protaganists), so that they could travel from thier Scottish and North of England seats, direct to the European Parliament in Brussels.

BR's European Passenger Services division, hated the idea, and from early days were saying quite publically that neither could possibly make a profit and they didnt want them. Nor could anyone make a "social case" for them, as they were only going to transport the rich anyway.

An interesting little ditty to all this, is that the Class 92 locos which were to haul the Nightstars, were, under Rfd (BR) making a million pounds a day loss. When they were taken over privately by EWS, no subsidy was given, and as a result, this saved the taxpayer a million pounds a day. I know this is the opposite of most of the other companies under privatisation, but I sometimes wonder, if all the rail companies were sold outright as with EWS with no subsidy, rather than franchises, might they have got their act in order too?

Just a thought. But if someone is gonna pay you for nothing, would you too keep accepting the money? I probably would.

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captain cab
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:46 pm 
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I see where your coming from Andy7, but in relation to the bus services, the non profitable routes have been cut, and the profitable routes now seem to have more buses.

In the old days, the profitable routes, ensured the unprofitable ones were covered.

Any profits made go straight into the pockets of private companies and shareholders, as opposed to back into the service.

But then everything is operated for a profit now, as opposed to a service.

Captain cab

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Andy7
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:11 pm 
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Location: Essex, England
Yeah Captain. Its all a nonsense isnt it.

Fact is though, that the subsidies are higher now than they have ever been.

Even the profitable services are subsidised with the Fuel Duty Rebate or Bus Service Operators Grant, as it now is.

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JD
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:37 am 
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Andy7 wrote:
As someone who has operated a WAV for the past 11 years Mike, I think your comment on the DDA is a little disingenious. Or `crap' to use your own words.

Secondly, how you have the gall to suggest that you speak for "what the vast majority in the trade actually want" does rather make me chuckle, when you accuse the rest of us of being biased, just because we have our own opinions and express them on here.

Even a comment made tongue-in-cheek elicits a counter argument from you.

As for what "the vast majority in the trade actually want" I would not presume to be such a presumptuous arragont Tw*t as to suggest what it might be, other than to say a decent living. No doubt we can all argue what a decent living might be, and how we can achieve it. But, unlike your self, I don't think artificial subsidies, limits on who can and can't earn a living, nor protectionist activities designed to make one group suffer at the expense of another, are a particularly good way of achieving it.

As a worker in an area where plates are unlimited issue, as a WAV operator, as a person who has earlier in my life worked in two areas where the TGWU have been a major contributing factor in decimating two industries, I do rather speak from my own personal experiences of life rather than ideological viewpoint. So, do I have a bias? Yes, of course I do. Do I agree with everyone on here? No, of course not, as many hold differing views based each upon their own experience and knowledge. Do I try and discredit their views by being rude and arrogant? I would hope I do not. Am I anything to do with the management of this site? No, I am not nor ever have been.

Have I ever been contacted off list by the management of this site slagging off other posters? Nope.

Have I ever been contacted off list by the management of another former taxi site slagging off other posters? Yup.

When you are not on your high horse, you and Nidge are great fun people who I happen to like personally, but when you put your "I'll tell you what everyone including yourself really wants" hat on, you are a pain.

Sincerest and kindest regards,
All my love,

Andy xxxxxxxxxx

(There, ten kisses for you)


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Yorkie
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:57 pm 
Just a word about fuel duty rebate

I run taxibuses and every time we leave route we have to give customs and excise, the name and address of the passenger and phone number where picked up and if different the name and address of where he lives

its a nightmare!
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TDO
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:53 pm 
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Andy7 wrote:
.

You could operate many services at less cost by giving the few passengers free taxis.


Yes, I agree, and wasn't in any way trying to defend subsidies for other sectors, if only because I don't know enough to comment.

I don't disagree that some subsidies would be better spent on taxis rather than buses and trains, but I think that the kind of across the board subsidies that you advocate wouldn't do any good other than having more taxis doing nothing. And clearly it wouldn't help those that some of the schemes in other sectors that you outline, since you presumably don't want taxi fares reduced to compensate for the subsidies.

So I think that any subsidies would have to be of the targeted kind - for example, I think some of the taxibus schemes are of this type. Alternatively, the subsidy would go to the user rather than the supplier - many LAs provide such schemes for the elderly and disabled, as you know.

But to be frank I can't see across the board subsidies helping us in the long run.

In my area there are far too many taxis strewn around the streets doing nothing as it is, and as far as I see it providing subsidies would make things even worse.

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Andy7
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:35 pm 
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Location: Essex, England
Yorkie wrote:
Just a word about fuel duty rebate

I run taxibuses and every time we leave route we have to give customs and excise, the name and address of the passenger and phone number where picked up and if different the name and address of where he lives

its a nightmare!


Yeah, that part of it is Yorkie. Methinks perhaps that most operators may be less honest than yourself, and "fudge" small route diversions, or register "encompassing" route submissions? Another think I have heard of is "route gapping" where a divert section is left out of the BSOG just to save on paperwork.

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