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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:44 pm 
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Gusmac writes:

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It was just easier to bullshit the masses in those days. Don't be looking back with rose tinted glasses, Skull.
That's for us thick wee tartan people, not the educated and enlightened elite such as yourself.


In those days, political parties were driven by differing ideologies. Now it's all gone. It's a boy's club for rich people. :-|


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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:57 pm 
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What amazes me, after what you have written, is how you believe it will be different come independence? :?

It’s a strange but fanciful notion don’t you think? #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o


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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:20 pm 
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Skull wrote:

A system with the proper checks and balances doesn't require saintly people to represent the public, and that's the point.

The system will only deliver the outcome it is geared to deliver. :-|


What are those "proper checks and balances"?

(hope thats in context enough for you)

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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:24 pm 
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Skull wrote:
Gusmac writes:

Quote:
It was just easier to bullshit the masses in those days. Don't be looking back with rose tinted glasses, Skull.
That's for us thick wee tartan people, not the educated and enlightened elite such as yourself.


In those days, political parties were driven by differing ideologies. Now it's all gone. It's a boy's club for rich people. :-|


The parties that held power were still in the pockets of the rich. It has always been that way, except maybe for a short period from 1945 until the 80's.

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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:33 pm 
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Skull wrote:

It’s a strange but fanciful notion don’t you think? #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o


Not nearly as fancifull as thinking the people are going to take to the streets to get the type of government you think they should have.
People rarely demand what they have difficulty pronouncing, let alone understanding. :shock:

Even more fanciful is the idea that there is an army of honest and capable people just waiting to run the country for the good of their fellow man.
I think you are taking no account of human nature there. #-o

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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:52 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:

It’s a strange but fanciful notion don’t you think? #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o


Not nearly as fancifull as thinking the people are going to take to the streets to get the type of government you think they should have.
People rarely demand what they have difficulty pronouncing, let alone understanding. :shock:

Even more fanciful is the idea that there is an army of honest and capable people just waiting to run the country for the good of their fellow man.
I think you are taking no account of human nature there. #-o


I have never said that people are going to take to the streets to get the type of government I think they should have. What I did say, is without people taking to the streets, we will only get the government we deserve



I never said anything about honest capable people either, once again, you are taking things out of context. It is you who depend on people doing good for their fellow man, and I always take into account human nature. In fact, you are just being silly.


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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:57 pm 
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Not only do people like you depend on selfless individuals to work in the public interest, you need them to change the system from the inside to make sure it happens.

Really, your just a dreamer. #-o


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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:00 pm 
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Skull wrote:
Not only do people like you depend on selfless individuals to work in the public interest, you need them to change the system from the inside to make sure it happens.

Really, your just a dreamer. #-o


Pot and kettle. #-o

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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:00 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:

A system with the proper checks and balances doesn't require saintly people to represent the public, and that's the point.

The system will only deliver the outcome it is geared to deliver. :-|


What are those "proper checks and balances"?

(hope thats in context enough for you)


Still waiting :-"

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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:12 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:

A system with the proper checks and balances doesn't require saintly people to represent the public, and that's the point.

The system will only deliver the outcome it is geared to deliver. :-|


What are those "proper checks and balances"?

(hope thats in context enough for you)


Still waiting :-"


We've been through all of this before - transparency of government with direct accountability to the electorate through an independent arbiter, empowered to act in the public interest.

You see gusmac. Your problem is you buy into all their "freedom and independence" rhetoric, but you don't know what it means. You seem to think if they use the right words, that's what will be delivered. #-o


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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:21 pm 
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Skull wrote:

We've been through all of this before - transparency of government with direct accountability to the electorate through an independent arbiter, empowered to act in the public interest.



Yes we have, haven't we?

"transparency of government with direct accountability to the electorate through an independent arbiter, empowered to act in the public interest".

In fact, word for word, the same phrase. Now what exactly does that mean? Do you even know, or does it just sound good?

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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Skull wrote:
I have never said that people are going to take to the streets to get the type of government I think they should have. What I did say, is without people taking to the streets, we will only get the government we deserve


Then we will get what we deserve then, won't we?
The rest of your musings are just pointless drivel, because it simply isn't going to happen.

Quote:
I never said anything about honest capable people either, once again, you are taking things out of context.


No you didn't, did you? In fact you still haven't explained who you think is going to be running your new order or what "checks and balances" they will be subject to.

You also haven't explained how all this open transparent government isn't going to disadvantage the country in it's dealings with other countries?

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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:52 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:
I have never said that people are going to take to the streets to get the type of government I think they should have. What I did say, is without people taking to the streets, we will only get the government we deserve


Then we will get what we deserve then, won't we?
The rest of your musings are just pointless drivel, because it simply isn't going to happen.

Quote:
I never said anything about honest capable people either, once again, you are taking things out of context.


No you didn't, did you? In fact you still haven't explained who you think is going to be running your new order or what "checks and balances" they will be subject to.

You also haven't explained how all this open transparent government isn't going to disadvantage the country in it's dealings with other countries?


I worry about this so-called independence gig. And I'm afraid to say Gusmac, it's those like you who cause me the most concern.

You seem to think there is some merit in Holyrood and the establishment clique who have a vice like grip of it.

It is bad now. It would run rampant with independence.

At least under Westminster the in-built inefficiency of the Parliament put an inadvertent brake on the wilder excesses of Scottish politicians. That brake was released with the Parliament, and what we've been subjected to is a raft of intrusive legislation by a chamber intent on controlling the minutiae of our lives.

But don't worry. When push comes to shove and the SNP fascists show their true colours, and the public realises it and gets heart sick of it, then all the frustrated and abused units of production won't have to incur the cost of an extortionate train fare to march on Parliament. They can pick up their scythes and molotovs, don some cheap Primark hoodies and just toddle down to the end of the Canongate and wreak the necessary havoc.

Logic dictates it's coming Gusmac. Mark my words.

And I'll vouch the politicians, government and the cops all know this and are making contingencies for it.

The continued economic hardship where its the poor who are bearing the brunt for the excesses of the capitalist failings make it the certainty all the authorities know it to be.

#-o

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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:56 pm 
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Dear o dear, did Skull send for the cavalry?

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 Post subject: Re: Bent Judges
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:58 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:
I have never said that people are going to take to the streets to get the type of government I think they should have. What I did say, is without people taking to the streets, we will only get the government we deserve


Then we will get what we deserve then, won't we?
The rest of your musings are just pointless drivel, because it simply isn't going to happen.

Quote:
I never said anything about honest capable people either, once again, you are taking things out of context.


No you didn't, did you? In fact you still haven't explained who you think is going to be running your new order or what "checks and balances" they will be subject to.

You also haven't explained how all this open transparent government isn't going to disadvantage the country in it's dealings with other countries?


Gusmac you are being silly, but I’ll indulge you a little bit longer.

Transparency of Government is having access to information which lies in the public interest. And that means on my computer, today.

An Independent arbiter is simply a body of people empowered to act in the public interest. You would grant them wide-ranging powers but essentially that’s it. You would be allowed to present your case in full, if decided it has merit and not vexatious.

If politicians are found to be incompetent or are simply not doing their job, they are history.

Our only recourse at the present moment is to appeal their decisions through the courts or make a complaint to the Council or parliamentary ombudsman, which is a complete joke as they only look at the procedures followed and not the case anew. It’s another boys club.

As for international affairs, I don't think we are at that stage yet, do you?


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