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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:21 pm 
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I agree there is little meat on the bones, but surely it is for us to try and put it there.

It's still more than the union has proposed in 300 years, or ever looks like proposing. :-|

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:59 am 
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gusmac wrote:
I agree there is little meat on the bones, but surely it is for us to try and put it there.

It's still more than the union has proposed in 300 years, or ever looks like proposing. :-|


That's the problem, I'm not really sure what they are proposing or how they can be compelled to deliver it. What I'm hearing is a lot of sound bites while MacAskill tinkers with the legal aid system, which doesn't bode well for gaining access to your rights through the courts. :sad:

Quite honestly, I think MacAskill is a madman and dangerous with it. :-|


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:22 am 
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Skull wrote:

Quite honestly, I think MacAskill is a madman and dangerous with it. :-|


Perhaps he is, I wouldn't know.

Maybe it is just bs but we won't know if we don't try. If the genie gets out of the bottle, it could prove very difficult to put back in :D
Nothing else is on offer either, so what is there to lose?

At worst, you're back where you are right now and get to continue telling everyone what you've been saying all along - and with some fact to back it up.
And I can't accuse you of being all talk and no action. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:46 am 
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gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:

The truth is, without a written constitution and the necessary checks and balance, nothing will change. All the fancy words like independence, freedom and social justice, won’t really mean anything. And only a complete numpty would believe otherwise.


An Independent Scotland will have a written constitution for it's citizens.
That may not be exactly what you want, but that's far more than the UK has ever had for it's subjects.


Well there's a first. And its the first I've heard of it.

Let me say from the outset it won't happen. Because written constitutions tie our political masters down. And they don't like being tied down.

That's why much of our law is common law, law without statute. Because that keeps the whole gig so woolly lawyers can make a fortune out of it.

Jeeze we've got councils running secret courts. And you think they're going to give this up?

:roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:53 am 
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gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:

Quite honestly, I think MacAskill is a madman and dangerous with it. :-|


Perhaps he is, I wouldn't know.

Maybe it is just bs but we won't know if we don't try. If the genie gets out of the bottle, it could prove very difficult to put back in :D
Nothing else is on offer either, so what is there to lose?

At worst, you're back where you are right now and get to continue telling everyone what you've been saying all along - and with some fact to back it up.
And I can't accuse you of being all talk and no action. :lol:


And there's the weakness of your tirade. We might as well change, even if nothing is different. Let those who are working their own interests prevail. NOT!

I'd prefer to change the status quo, and then move on from that, rather than rush headlong into new uncertainty.

Odious eck and manic macaskill are dangerous who just can't be trusted.

And any government containing devious sycophantic scumbags like Colin Keir simply proves how worthless our political process is.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Jasbar wrote:

And there's the weakness of your tirade. We might as well change, even if nothing is different.


Not what I said. :roll:

Jasbar wrote:
Let those who are working their own interests prevail. NOT!


Unless they are doing so at Westminster? :shock:

Jasbar wrote:
I'd prefer to change the status quo, and then move on from that, rather than rush headlong into new uncertainty.


Perhaps you'd care to tell us how you are going to achieve that? :-"

Jasbar wrote:
Odious eck and manic macaskill are dangerous who just can't be trusted.


If you say so, who am I to argue? :roll:
Terrible grammar there, BTW :wink:

Jasbar wrote:
And any government containing devious sycophantic scumbags like Colin Keir simply proves how worthless our political process is.


As opposed to one containing IDS, Gideon and "call me Dave", which is a shining example of good governance? :roll:

Independence really does fill you with a sense of dread, doesn't it? :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Jasbar wrote:
Well there's a first. And its the first I've heard of it.


Dear oh dear. Not as well informed as you thought then.

Jasbar wrote:
Let me say from the outset it won't happen. Because written constitutions tie our political masters down. And they don't like being tied down.

That's why much of our law is common law, law without statute. Because that keeps the whole gig so woolly lawyers can make a fortune out of it.

Jeeze we've got councils running secret courts. And you think they're going to give this up?


You think they are going to make such a big deal out of this and then fail to deliver?
That's called political suicide. It's the job of all of us to make sure they do deliver.

Or we can wait for Cameron et al to deliver it instead. It's only been 306 years :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:55 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:

Quite honestly, I think MacAskill is a madman and dangerous with it. :-|


Perhaps he is, I wouldn't know.

Maybe it is just bs but we won't know if we don't try. If the genie gets out of the bottle, it could prove very difficult to put back in :D
Nothing else is on offer either, so what is there to lose?

At worst, you're back where you are right now and get to continue telling everyone what you've been saying all along - and with some fact to back it up.
And I can't accuse you of being all talk and no action. :lol:



You've got a point but in that situation, I would be voting for an independence meltdown, as I believe, this is the only way real change can happen. :-|

I'm not against taking a punt. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:39 pm 
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Skull wrote:
So you see Gusmac, it has nothing to do with being for the Union or against Independence. It’s simply about seeing beyond the bullshit. The fundamental principles of democracy are being usurped by the wealthy elite and their puppet politicians.
As for voting for Independence, without a written constitution and more importantly the legal framework to underpin the fundamental principles of democracy, we’ll all end up living in another political dictatorship. Where voting is nothing more than a Public Relations exercise to convince a few numpties, the political system actually works. :-|



I think one of the biggest cons of our time has been the immigration issue - if anyone says anything they're instantly cast aside as a racist (a necessary political goal).

The fact of the matter appears to be that immigration is more about increasing the pool of labour - Eastern Europe is the current favoured place but before that we had our Asian influx, our west indian influx and going through history even an irish one.

Of course nothing is said - and those who do say something, as previously mentioned are naturally racist.

It suits purposes currently to blame the EU - but who actually benefits from 100 applicants for a single job?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:49 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Skull wrote:
So you see Gusmac, it has nothing to do with being for the Union or against Independence. It’s simply about seeing beyond the bullshit. The fundamental principles of democracy are being usurped by the wealthy elite and their puppet politicians.
As for voting for Independence, without a written constitution and more importantly the legal framework to underpin the fundamental principles of democracy, we’ll all end up living in another political dictatorship. Where voting is nothing more than a Public Relations exercise to convince a few numpties, the political system actually works. :-|



I think one of the biggest cons of our time has been the immigration issue - if anyone says anything they're instantly cast aside as a racist (a necessary political goal).

The fact of the matter appears to be that immigration is more about increasing the pool of labour - Eastern Europe is the current favoured place but before that we had our Asian influx, our west indian influx and going through history even an irish one.

Of course nothing is said - and those who do say something, as previously mentioned are naturally racist.

It suits purposes currently to blame the EU - but who actually benefits from 100 applicants for a single job?



It's a plantation economy. We are all cotton pickers and cotton picker's sons...working for next to fu*k all. Great if you happen to be a multinational company looking for cheap labour to boost profits for your shareholders. :-|


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:48 am 
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Skull wrote:
Great if you happen to be a multinational company looking for cheap labour to boost profits for your shareholders. :-|


and prepared to work to a labour rate set by the fact you either accept it.....or you're replaced by the other fish in the barrel

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:15 am 
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I've always found it laughable that most people think the right and the Tories in particular are the people most likely to do something about immigration. In reality, the reverse is true.
They are the ones who want cheap labour to keep wage costs down and to reign in the working man.

Turkeys and Christmas comes to mind. :roll:

BTW, as the UK's political parties all drift to the right, whose really looking out for the average Joe?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:31 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
I've always found it laughable that most people think the right and the Tories in particular are the people most likely to do something about immigration. In reality, the reverse is true.
They are the ones who want cheap labour to keep wage costs down and to reign in the working man.

Turkeys and Christmas comes to mind. :roll:

BTW, as the UK's political parties all drift to the right, whose really looking out for the average Joe?



And the above is the same no matter who you vote for in this country. Tony Blair positioned the Labour party to the right of Thatcher and now there's no going back. Your average working man doesn't even know how to protest anymore, because Thatcher effectively cut his balls off. :-|


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:20 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
I've always found it laughable that most people think the right and the Tories in particular are the people most likely to do something about immigration. In reality, the reverse is true.
They are the ones who want cheap labour to keep wage costs down and to reign in the working man.

Turkeys and Christmas comes to mind. :roll:

BTW, as the UK's political parties all drift to the right, whose really looking out for the average Joe?


=D> =D> =D>

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:44 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
gusmac wrote:
I've always found it laughable that most people think the right and the Tories in particular are the people most likely to do something about immigration. In reality, the reverse is true.
They are the ones who want cheap labour to keep wage costs down and to reign in the working man.

Turkeys and Christmas comes to mind. :roll:

BTW, as the UK's political parties all drift to the right, whose really looking out for the average Joe?


=D> =D> =D>


Do you think Gusmac, believes that Salmon or MacAskill would do things differently, supposing they were in power?


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